Well, here is my reasoning. Everyone knows my role now, so if I don’t vote, the wolves will skip me and kill someone else. My abstaining from voting won’t save any lives tonight, so I might as well try to steer the lynch in the way I think is right. The fact that I haven’t been targeted I can chalk up to my role having been leaked to the wolves early in the game.
As for my actions regarding Pendrokar, there’s a simple explanation there as well. I have absolute, undeniable proof that Pendrokar is a human. I can take his assessments at face value, which is frankly kind of relaxing. What proof, you ask? I was invited to a private message thread in which I saw Xamino say that he had scanned Pendrokar and found him to be human. Can’t get any proofier than that.
All this being said, I still think Aventine is the better lynch choice. Arkenbrien’s text wall just makes me feel worse and worse about his prospects of being a wolf.
I would say this should warrant Enginish’s vote. If we do indeed have three wolves and if Enginish is who he says he is, then his vote is needed else the wolves could force tie the vote and win.
I can agree with everything you’ve said and your suspicions regarding Enginish. Yet I cannot take the chance of Enginish being a wolf now, as strange as it sounds it is too early to tell for me. The thing that convinces me that Enginish is human is the death of Xamino. A single death. If there were two deaths that night I would have confirmation that Enginish is a wolf… except I would probably be the second death. Theoretically it could be that Xamino told someone else that he was going to stalk Enginish and whom he told that was a wolf, who used Xamino’s death to frame Enginish, but I bet he would have shared such information with me. I bet it would be Ovog, but such a question to him would not be answered. So no Arkenbrien I cannot follow your vote right now, but your insights were helpful so I am removing my vote.
It is indeed possible that wolves have their own seer and have known about Enginish’s role for a while, but still…
@Aventine, your fingers seem way too itchy, NobleBrutus seems to act like a human and as Ovog, who has been quiet, both skipped chances to lynch Enginish time and time again. Aventine, the killings end tonight.
That reasoning would rest entirely upon whether or not Xamino’s death from aggressively stalking a wolf, resulting in his death, would result in the wolves not having a second kill. In the interest of game balance, I can see limiting a human death to one per night being a possibility.
As I see the whole Xamino situation, either:
The wolves were incredibly lucky and just happened to have X as the night target,
Enginish is a wolf and killed Xamino when aggressively stalked and was not able to perform a second night kill, and was automatically invited to the nexus for the reasons you gave,
Enginish is a wolf and killed Xamino when aggressively stalked but took the chance that Xamino was in contact with someone else after guessing the stalking mechanics and hoped that the contact would invite him to the fledgling Illuminati,
You have a jammer/scan confuser and have played this situation out to its maximum potential,
or Enginish is a human, and I have ultra paranoia about un-familiar roles and unexplained actions.
@Enginish - Your reasoning makes sense. I also agree with you second paragraph, after having been invited to the PM. I hereby withdraw all suspicion from Pen. I just hope that Pen doesn’t have a jammer. But I find it unlikely that that is the case.
So this entire operation is based of whether there is a mole? Very well. I thought I heard the number five thrown out by Pen, but I can’t recall the fifth one in your original PM group. It would make sense if you were to make the names of the five public. I’ll go from there.
That five included Enginish as I said “5 people agreed to lie”. Hmm, just reviewed our private PMs between me and Enginish, Lomsor seems to be the third person to find about the Turtle role, sorry about that Arken. In chronological order of who knew about the Turtle role:
1/2 Simultaneously revealed to Pendrokar, Arkenbrien
3. Lomsor
4. Aventine (PMed me about the suspicious vote retraction by Enginish. Enginish was so close to being lynched that I panicked and told him about the role. I thought a wolf wouldn’t be so insistant, perhaps I was wrong.)
Aventine is the most suspicious of named right now, because he had been the only one actively trying to lynch Enginish. Even with his understandable worry of a suspicious pair of players.
I dislike the argument that Enginish must be town because otherwise there would have been two night kills. If Enginish is a wolf then the lack of a second night kill can be fairly easily explained. Remember xamino had the codes, if the wolves wanted to make sure we didn’t use them they could have selected xamino for the night kill.
Look at it this way. @Pendrokar, you’re arguing that Enginish is not a wolf, if that is the case then the wolves must have picked xamino for the night kill. If the wolves picked xamino for the night kill then only xamino would die, regardless of whether Enginish is a wolf. Arguing that if Enginish is a wolf then there would have to be two deaths in the night is tantamount to arguing that xamino would not have been picked for the night kill that night. But then the problem is that if you are right he was picked for the night kill. The logical conclusion of your argument is that one of the premises of your argument is incorrect.
Finally,
Really? Where do my fingers seem itchy? When I refused to vote for a ridiculous bandwagon that formed way too fast so I went with an ineffectual vote on principle? When I voted because the day phase was quickly running out so someone needed to vote, so I picked someone who seemed suspicious to me? When I later changed that vote to prevent a tie? When I removed my vote from Enginish to try and help his deception despite my misgivings (can’t vote for a claimed seer)? When I held off on voting despite leading the lynch votes when I could have forced a tie and saved myself? When I voted in order to break the tie that formed anyway? When I offered to change my vote if people would vote for someone I actually found suspicious?
Tigerfang tried to get people to actually do some lynch voting on day two and got destroyed by a crazy bandwagon with crap justification on day three. When I did the same on day four I wondered how long till I got the same…
I don’t really propose anything. I’ve said my piece, I have a few more things I could say I suppose, but if people won’t listen to what I have said they won’t listen to the rest. At this point I’m leaving my fate in the hands of you guys.
Edit: I might as well vote for Enginish, it won’t cause a tie anymore.
@Pendrokar@Enginish What did Enginish know about Xamino prior to his untimely death? I assume Enginish knew he was to be stalked… but most importantly, did he know he was going to be stalked by Xamino? (or was Xamino still anonymous to him?) The whole argument for Enginish being human hinges on that point.
It was mentioned. I told Enginish that Xamino might contact him very late at game night. It was enough for him to figure that Xamino is the stalker I mentioned. I did not mention a stalk method only that Xamino might die if stalking a wolf.
If Enginish was a wolf, he would be unable to use him to be claimed human. He wouldn’t miss a chance to do a double kill even if a third human was informed.
If I understand correctly you are saying Enginish knew it was xamino who was going to stalk him and that xamino would die if Enginish was a wolf. You are then claiming that Enginish would have let xamino die and killed someone else if he was a wolf. I see two problems. First, I’m not sure I would have believed that xamino would die, it would have sounded too much like an attempt to trick the wolves into letting him survive long enough to report what he found. If Enginish is a wolf, then it would be better to target xamino anyway to be sure he died and couldn’t spread the word. Also, it might make sense for a wolf-Enginish to intentionally not have a second kill in order to convince you he is town. The wolves get a spy for relatively little cost.
Pendrokar’s use of the word ‘might’ [quote=“Pendrokar, post:233, topic:88”]
I did not mention a stalk method only that Xamino might die if stalking a wolf.
[/quote]
2.If Xamino would not die if Enginish was a wolf then it would have made no sense to contact Enginish beforehand… therefore Enginish would probably believe it.
My point was not about whether it was certain that Xamino would die if Enginish was a wolf, but if Enginish knew that at the time before Xamino’s death. Pen’s use of the word ‘might’ indicated that Enginish may have been told it was not for certain. If it was not certain, then it would have made sense for the wolves to make sure.
No, missing the chance of having Enginish be aggressively stalked would increase suspicions of him. A wolf would try to decrease suspicion not increase it.
Sorry I’m confused about what you are trying to say. My point was that if Enginish is a wolf, then the wolves might have intentionally forgone their night kill. This would leave only one death that night, which would make it look like xamino was killed by a night kill, not his ability. In other words, the wolves might have anticipated that you would expect there to be two deaths if Enginish is a wolf, and intentionally avoided that in order to deceive you and gain your trust.