I don’t understand what purpose the semi private census serves. Telling TerranAmbass privately doesn’t gain you any safety. If he’s an infiltrator he doesn’t need to lie to gain an advantage from the information.
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If we say it publicly, though, the wolves find out no matter what.
If Terran is a wolf, he won’t lie about anything for fear of death, and if he’s a human (remember this is the most likely scenario), we keep information from the wolves while revealing the relevant bit, i.e. how many roles there are.
Doing it privately provides benefits with no drawbacks, IMO. It’s not useful right now for the humans to know who in particular has roles, only how many there are. Only wolves would care about who has what at this moment.
That seems kinda risky. Besides if he’s not a wolf what’s stopping them from killing him before he can do anything usful and forcing us to start all over, potentially telling them next time. I’m all about gathering info but if security is important at all I think this plan might need some more work.
…The idea is that people work quickly and he tells us before the end of the day. No risk of him dying before he tells us.
This is literally no riskier than doing it publicly.
He doesn’t need to. He already has the information. Even if everyone else gets back a completely accurate anonymised report he still knows who has a role, who doesn’t, and who was unwilling to state either way.[quote=“Enginish, post:82, topic:5314”]
Doing it privately provides benefits with no drawbacks
[/quote]
???
Are you willfully ignoring the main argument here?
There is an 80% chance, give or take, that Terran is a human. If he’s human, it means the wolves don’t get as much information as they would if we did it publicly.
That is the reason I’m suggesting this.
I don’t care who has roles and who doesn’t. All I want to know right now is how many roles exist.
The monitor flickered, displaying a string of green text on a black background, which Calico had copied from watching some of the facility’s entertainment films.
My analysis concludes that entrusting a single individual is risky, but unless we all become comfortable with publicly announcing that we have roles, abilities, or assets at our disposal, the course of action that Enginish has suggested is the most fruitful. The more information available to agents in a timely manner, despite the risk of increased infiltrator knowledge, improves the odds of cooperation around a core body. For this reason, I will participate in this plan of action.
Your analysis of the Enginish’s plan, Lysk, is correct in stating that the ability to ascertain if the truth is told would be impossible. However, I believe that there is adequate protection with a public announcement at a later date.
As too your other points, I am inclined at this time to believe them. However, unless there is a general consensus to have a more public announcement, or to simply abandon any form of reveal, then this is the best course of action. A little information is better than none. And, despite your arguments, you do not offer an alternative. If you have an surrogate strategy, then state it! As you have noted, time is running short.
It is my personal believe that a more public announcement would be the best course of action, or at least a second agent involved, if for no other reason that for accountability. I also believe a second agent would be in our best interest in terms of security. If the infiltrators kill the single agent that we have entrusted, then even if everybody told him the truth, it would be a fruitless effort, and tomorrow would be little different in that regard.
As this is the case, if I have persuaded this group on this point, I hereby offer my service as a second confidant. I will argue no more on this matter, unless it is the will of the agents to appoint a second, whether or not it is myself they choose.
Personally, having examined previous instances of similar scenarios within this facility’s database, terminating an asset without much cause seems to be ill advised.
In light of this, I revoke my vote against TerranAmbassador. However, given the lack of invovlement on Skyentist’s and Jubba’s part, I will make the unfortunate vote against Skyentist. Unless he speaks soon, I fear he will soon die a mute.
Transfer at 19%
I understand what information you want to get out of it… I don’t understand why you were ignoring the risks. They may be small, but to state that there are “no drawback” is a little naive. I’m not pushing to do a public census instead.
My original idea was to get some information out in the open to get the game going. Not an a complete census and I backtracked my idea a lot before even suggesting it. Since then I haven’t pushed for this any further. People can judge for themselves if they want to reveal anything, and if they do I’m not going to harass those who don’t as there are many reasons to want to keep things private.
I provided my thoughts. We need more information; I haven’t seen anything concrete enough to make a judgement about anyone at this point. As far as I’m concerned, you’re all equally suspicious at this point in time, and that’s not gonna change for at least another day.
If you want specifics, I think Enginish’s plan is a good way to generate patterns of behavior, and thus information.
If everyone’s amenable, I have a possible solution to the concern about individual players’ security. I could create a form for everyone to fill out anonymously. After all, we don’t need to know who has roles at this point in time. I can even share the results of this survey with a second confidant, for redundancy.
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Looks like I was a little unclear. When I said no drawbacks, I meant no additional drawbacks in comparison to a public reveal. Yes, there are unavoidable risks when doing a census like this and I acknowledge that. I think that in this case the benefits outweigh them, and the risks are mitigated when doing it privately.
That said, Terran’s anonymous form idea provides a great middle ground. I think it’s a good solution, with even less risk than a private reveal.
For the purpose of simply knowing the number of roles, this line of thought holds promise, and I am willing to cooperate.
@TerranAmbass We might be able to use the forum’s poll function? Have a giant “Role Call” PM with a poll and everybody invited? I don’t know how ‘secure’ that would be though. You probably have an alternate solution already planned.
However, if someone could set up a poll on the forum, and it’s anonymous, we could post it right here.
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Test poll time!
- BANANAS
- ORANGES
- TOMATOES
0 voters
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I’ve got a Google form set up and waiting.
It seems to work. There is an option to hide users, I don’t know if you can change it later by editing. So the google option is probably more secure, however I don’t know how that works so I can’t vouch for it.
Upon looking at the edit function, there doesn’t appear to be any way to alter it after it is made. It would have to be remade in order for specific results to be seen. If you are careful, and watch the forums like a hawk, you might be able to tell who is online when a vote is made.
Test poll V.2
- Cats
- Dogs
0 voters
Closing the poll locks the current result, but doesn’t hide it.
But I can edit it to show who voted after posting it. Google it is, then.
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Very well.
- I’m a wolf
- I’m a human
0 voters
Does that show up as a post edit, though? Those are specifically against the rules I think.
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