Yeah, but we prefer to do it all in engine anyways… 
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You may think that’s what you want, but remember, Inovae still has to sell the final product after a successful kickstarter. If delivery falls far too short of expectations, then you risk destroying your customer base as well as any future prospects of moving on to bigger and better things (MMO anyone?)
Short term solution, long term consequences…
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I consider Inovae lack of funds for CGI as a giant +
That is the point, others have to resort to CGI, while you can do it in engine. 
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Serious question: Do you want me to take down this video I made before the KS starts? Youtube Video
I have no problem either way. I can remove it or keep it. Up to you guys.
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Welp, you use our logo and then don’t credit the images/scenes from the movie/composer for Interstellar. It kinda makes it look like INS “stole” that footage and music IMO.
I guess I will have to defer to our PR people (Keith & Dan). l as you guys seems to think I’m trying to kick you all in the nuts
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Also. It isn’t your youtube account. People aren’t stupid. Obviously it’s just a fan compilation. I did some for Black Prophecy trailer remixes back in the day (including all the company logos) and no one complained, they even mentioned it in the newsletter.
@voidskipper: Just add a description to the video, describing what this actually is. You know, so people can do something with that inspiration … pour money into the kickstarter and such.
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Except that people repost official videos in order to get views. That video looks like a company video and I’m sure @Voidskipper did it that way because it looks cooler that way.
If I was a judge, I’d rule this as falling outside fair use. It is presented as company promotional material - despite the fact that it came from someone not currently compensated by the company.
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This is kinda the point really. At its root its kind of like plagiarism or libel. On the one hand, fair use aside, its not his material and he doesn’t give sufficient credit to the original owners to distinguish that fact. On the other hand, it can be loosely viewed as libel in that it misrepresents I-Novae in a potentially damaging way. I don’t think either case would hold up court, but you might want to consider it from an ethical standpoint rather than whatever you can legally get away with.
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And this is where I am coming from. Please leave the INS “official looking” content releases to us. Fan vids are fine, but you need to explain it as such in the title and/or description IMO.
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Either way. It is free promotion with a miniscule risk that is neglectble.
The team has no power over what kind of content the community puts out there. They certainly can ask for its take down if it violates law but there are thousands of videos out there promoting all kinds of stuff, some looking pretty legit, while others don’t, still, they are promoting, and if they do unlawful or unethical things, all that is needed is to point out that this isn’t a reliable source. That’s basic internet workings people. People take stuff transform it and repost it, most of the time it’s kinda cool, other times it’s just lazy cash and “like” grab, and sometimes people do not ok stuff.
I will. But then I’ll take it and remix it and will leave all the logos and web addresses and everything, because that’s the whole point I did remix it for, to make more out of it then there was before, out of thin air. More for people to find and get interested.
I can do stuff the official source can’t do without backslash. Like reusing old images, adding music that isn’t coherent to the design direction but appeals to another audience, add content that wasn’t meant for video, like images or historical comparisons. All this rides the hype train.
I’m more of a video guy and there wasn’t that much released yet, but if there was I would probably have released my own fan trailer by now.
Official sources, especially ones like you, video game creators, have rather low problem of people stealing their stuff. You are protected by quite some effects to top that off:
- Visibility of fan content is rather small compared to official content
- Uniqueness of the content makes it easily traceable to its official source (the whole point of the watermarks and why removing them is counterproductive)
- If something goes viral that is an exact copy of your content somewhere else, takedown procedures are quite easy nowadays.
Mind that in the past I always labelled everything for what it was e.g “fan trailer” and description of what it was and where to get it. I also credited the music. Not just because it’s ethical and/or lawfull. But people are interested what it is they actually saw and heard and want to know its sources.
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This is all that anyone is really asking for. No need to work yourself up. Just declare what it is ( a fan video) and where it came from. Failure to do that can, in some cases, make it look official. In short, just be honest. Simple right?
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Ahh yes, the swift kick of Gene… I know it well…
Only 2 rules one should follow (more like suggestions really)
- Give a good description of the work, and title it accordingly, a good title accurately reflects content.
- A list of references and content sources. Music, Imagery, Video, etc, with links if possible.
That being said, I love seeing community produced content, and personally feel it should be encouraged as we build towards a significantly important campaign.
I’ll discuss some official guidelines for I-Novae evangelism with the team this weekend.
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Is this how you make googly-eyed asteroids?
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All in favor of a googly-eye asteroid mascot?
/raises hand
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Ok, so I didn’t really realise how many posts my post was going to cover when I started this reply so I’ll preface it with this.
I think community-made content can be pretty cool, but ultimately whilst our copyright laws are as they are, you should defer to the wishes of INS when using their content in your own works, even if you are doing it in order to increase publicity around their software. You should also be extremely wary of combining their works with other people’s works you don’t have the permission to use, perhaps with the exception of music (though be aware that if you get ContentID’d, the music copyright owners will have the right to display ads on your video, among other things). YouTube have a lot of documentation on that afaik.
Prefacing with IANAL, but:
To my knowledge, any copy of those images with or without logo would be a breach of copyright in any country that is a signatory to the Berne Convention (most countries), unless explicitly having been given license to make those copies by the copyright holder. Thought it’s worth pointing out that there’s pretty much no country that has copyright law suitable for digital media, because the law doesn’t account for the way technology actually works… But that’s an aside really, because the same laws do apply, even if they get enforced selectively.
Actually, YouTube would more than likely serve a DMCA takedown if INS requested it. It would then be up to SpaceDonki to prove he wasn’t using copyrighted materials, which of course he is, or that his usage was fair use, which is non-trivial.
Not suggesting INS should do this of course…
I wish people would stop saying this. To reference another thread, just look at Derek Smart. The publicity he’s bringing around SC isn’t doing him or CIG any good.
I do like the new vid though SpaceDonki 
@Lomsor Fair use is a bit of a crapshoot. YouTube will often drop a video if it gets served a DMCA takedown notice and then make it visible again if the DMCA is shown to be invalid. Content providers aren’t able to determine whether something is fair use on your behalf.
It really isn’t your place to determine the risk of unauthorised “promotion”, because you aren’t the one bearing the risk.
That’s not how copyright law works though, and if you’re using places like YouTube, which have been repeatedly beaten into submission mostly by large music publishing lobbies, they are most likely going to land on the side of the copyright holder.
And if you do it without permission and against the wishes of the copyright holder, you’ll likely face a takedown request. And if you fail to counter it with a sufficiently good fair use argument, it’ll stay down.
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If the game isn’t good enough that will happen anyway. It’s more likely to be good enough with a massively successful Kickstarter, and that’s more likely to happen with a campaign video that effectively conveys I-Novae’s plans and vision for the game they want to build.
The game hasn’t been made yet and therefore in-engine footage is not going to show the planned gameplay, only a snippet. - That’s why a CGI video is useful.
In-engine footage is also very important but for different reasons - Demonstrating good WIP increases confidence in the company’s ability to deliver the game… the issue is conveying to the audience what that game will be like.
Simplisticly, the KS video needs to do two things:
- Convey what the game will be like.
- Convince of I-Novae’s ability to deliver the vision conveyed in point 1.
I’m sure I-Novae will do a great job of point 2.
My concern is that people will be left thinking ‘meh, sounds like Star Citizen’s Arena Commander.’ etc
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@Topperfalkon: If you read my sentences more carefully you see that I took the stuff you answered into consideration.
But it is in my place to voice my opinion of how risky I find it would be, factoring in my experience with the internet.
I said:
How long it can stay there, visibly, is another question. In the next sentence I acknowledged their power to, very easily, remove their content from sites like youtube.
Yes, you are right. Promoting a companies work doesn’t fall under fair use and thus my fair use argument only applies to content without the company logos or at least without the intend of promotion.
What I’m trying to solicit here is, to not rush the general blocking of access to I-Novae content from the community too early, too permanently.
Disallowing the community to use I-Novae trademarked content disables some of their possibilities to promote I-Novaes products when they become available.
It is in this current stage that harm from misinformation can probably do more harm then later. And it’s good that some people that chose to use I-Novaes content this early stepped forward and asked. Because now is a critical time. If there’s not enough official information (empty Battlescape Webpage for instance), the person that tries to inform itself will stay with misinformation.
In later stages where loads of official content is available, stumbling upon Fancontent with watermarks will lead them here, where they’ll find all the credible sources they need.
And, just again, just my opinion. I don’t know how harmful this will be. Drama grows fast on the internet, just in my experience rarely in places like this.
Also. Remember all those ICP videos that are still out there? Sure the name changed and evrything, but still.
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That makes sense and I broadly agree. Thank you for your clarification.
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I don’t believe anyone has suggested blocking access to anything. Most of the things people have been talking about have been related to the issues of proper use and effective use. As you observe, fair use gives fans a lot of room to work with.
I am not a lawyer.
Promoting INS’s work probably falls under half a dozen characterizations of fair use. Commentary, criticism, news reporting and teaching jump out at me right away. But the “gameplay” video doesn’t present itself as any of those things. It presents itself as official company media. So it doesn’t fall under fair use.
To make it properly fall under fair use, all he had to do was add something at the beginning of the video expressing the purpose of the video, and removing the INS logo at the end (or adding something else after it).
“An amazing game is coming to Kickstarter in 2015” (news reporting)
“I-Novae Studios uses procedural generation to create these amazing scenes” (education)
And so on. The clearer the education, news, commentary, etc. content, the more clearly it would fall under fair use. For example, making “procedural generation” into a link to a Wikipedia article would add to the educational value.
Then there’s the separate question of effective use of INS’s media…
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I think it’s funny that no one has agreed with that yet. It’s become more of our forum’s meme rather then something we truly desire. (I still want my asteroid painter though.) Also, I feel that if this topic of fan content vs Gene’s wish needs to move to a separate thread, should we wish to continue this not so useful banter.
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