Lieutenant Artiom Kovnatsky rips his eyes open. This isn’t right, with one jerk he turns to the clock … he overslept … he never oversleeps. He can’t sleep this deep out here unless, wait! Reaching out for the steel wall of his cabin … only the waves.
3 Minutes later he rushes trough the door of the bridge. “блядь!”, putting his hand on his mouth he trembles and just stands there for a minute.
A midshipman hands him a log, he flies trough it and announces.
“These infiltrants want us here put, we need to get the Propulsion working an move out of here!”
“And will someone please get these bodies out of here.”
That’s a good idea. I support the idea of not splitting up too much, at least today. In the last subsystem game I had to watch my “submates” executing their plot, blowing up half the ship, without me being able to do anything. At least I was the only human that “survived”.
8 / 8 seems pretty save also in the long run. I don’t think the wolves will be able to do much harm to the ship when controlling the Propulsion though, not as much as other systems at least.
The problem doesn’t arise today or tomorow … but later in the game when humans are withering away and wolves naturally gain or sneak into systems without getting noticed.
Think about it, the best thing for us humans to happen is that wolves get a system and use it against us on the first night, we can lynch the whole group of them for an action like that.
So I’m still thinking 2 on 8 systems, to take the system wolves must put 2 of them on a system, if that system misbehaves, both are wolves.
Three on a system is no good, since they also need only 2 to have majority, so 2 or 4, with 5 they still only need 3, even numbers are our best bet and 6 would be excessive.
Attempting that should also get him lynched. If no one ever repairs it, then no one has the ability to damage other systems(if that is its critical ability which is a possibility).
If we decide to go with 2 subsystems someone(whoever understands it, not me!) should randomize it using the seed cyber made. We shouldn’t allow people to choose which of the two subsystems they repair. The wolves could easily pile in and nearly have control of one. All it takes is a lucky lynch or their killing of someone to be in control. This is still a threat even with rng, but less so.
As useful as the medbay is, maybe it is better to only repair propulsion for this day to play it safe and to get more information on the next day.
I have seen this kind of argument against gaining information in the past wolf games, I don’t understand why you don’t understand that information is a good thing, good for humans, the more info we have the more twisted the lies the wolves need to tell…
It’s not that we lose information, but we give away power. If everyone is all in 1 subsystem we lose zero information(since none was gained) and we all have the same power. More power than the wolves since we outnumber them 12 to 4.
As you spread out the votes you give more power to the wolves by thinning our numbers.
No information is lost since it was never gained in the first place. Not having certain subsystems doesn’t mean we lose information, nor does it magically grant us information. It only makes things more confusing. If they kill 1 person in a subsystem and only 1 is left. Is it a ploy to get us to the lynch the 1 person left? Are they actually a wolf or a human? There is no way to tell.
This is a game of chess. The best play to make is the one where your opponent is forced to act. By allowing a situation where 1 person controls a subsystem it forces us to act and that is the wrong move to make.
The safest move to make for tonight is to act as little as possible. Let them make their move and see what information that gives us. You are trying to play a hail mary on the first play which could have disastrous consequences.
Having 8 systems worth of information is more valued while there are 16 of us still in the game, as 16 people have access to 8 systems worth of information, if we do 2 systems a day/night cycle, we will have lost 8 people before we have the same information…
It’s worth ~half as much in pure statistical terms to do only 2 systems.
That only works if you count a system being online as pure information. It isn’t! An online subsystem gives you the chance for information, but it also gives the chance for it to be used against you. The wolves can cause serious turmoil about who controls a subsystem tomorrow regardless. If we are all packed into 1, then their kill makes us lose less potential power.
You still have the vote for the right people/actions(in a subsystem) and use it correctly. At least for the first night, voting for 1 or 2 subsystems gives us the most information with the least amount of action. I might agree with you in the second day, but for the first day we need to see what happens during the nights, just in general, and to see who gets killed. We still don’t know how martin will roll the nights.
When the night starts, I will create a private thread for every repaired system. The first post of this thread will describe exactly what the system does.
I think that arguing for 2 persons for every system may have a valid point, if everyone agrees to post publicly what each subsystem does tomorrow. By using a true random distribution we can be relatively sure that most systems will either be fully controlled by humans or at least half controlled by humans. In both cases we can be sure that the true role of each system is revealed. However, if any system is randomly assigned 2 wolves, then we have a problem because we can’t guarantee they are telling the truth. This may be mitigated tomorrow by redistributing everyone to different systems so that we can double check the roles.
The above proposal should guarantee the most information gathering for us harmless humans and gain the best understanding of the complete picture. At the very least it will make it harder for the wolves to pull of combo moves if every human can potentially see what is possible.
I suggest everyone state which plan they’d rather follow, then we should act swiftly and implement it. Stragglers will be executed.
Non-RP is usually where the true discussions happen on this forum. We’ve not managed to pull off a complete RP wolf game so far, mostly because it is work to write RP when you’re trying to save your skin before a lynch. I’d avoid basing decisions on RP, but it has happened that hints have been written cleverly into it. I think. Just as a tip for a newling.
Who cares what a System does if one can not use it. Sure it will be useful to know how useful it would be if someone would use it, but by that time it’s already too late! Someone used it and even if we knew what all system do, I’m pretty sure some groups will not share all information.
Spreading our power plays into wolf hands. Opening more possibilities plays mostly into wolves hands. Having more information complicates things and obfuscates actions and reactions. Information isn’t always good.
I’m strictly against information if the cost is “seeding” wolf plots. We will gain the intel a day later. With 4 or more subsystems under firm human control I’m pretty certain we’ll have a seer system or such thing by then … a seer that is confirmable by more then 4 people! That’s a big plus, if such thing exist, in my opinion. We shouldn’t skip said possibility just out of curiosity.
I just don’t know what to add to the discussion is all. Last time we played a game like this the wolfs had all the info and the humans were stumbling in the dark. I like Matts idea to make everything public, but I think we should take it a step further and publicly list all votes in each subsystem. In my opinion the key for the humans here is to make all info as publicly available as possible. We can’t play it close to the vest this time because we all know how well that worked.
The way I see it, we either split evenly into as many subsystems as possible (so, 2 per system), or we don’t split at all.
Splitting into 2 systems only is a bad idea, especially if we stick on 16 start players. If we stay on 16, a 2 system split will have 8 people per system, and up to 4 wolves (assumed) regardless of whether we randomise the position selection. If I were a wolf, I’d use that as an opportunity to create effectively 2 camps on day 2. There would be one camp that lost a player overnight and one that didn’t. The camp that didn’t would immediately gain suspicion. There are many permutations as to how the wolves might decide to use that to their advantage.
It also goes without saying that a 2 system split would require no lynching takes place on the first day.
A 2 person per system… system (ugh) would, at most, only allow the wolves to control 2 systems, but allow them to part control up to 4 (again irrespective of whether positions are randomised). The ideal here would be to exclude any systems we think might have dangerous offensive capabilities from the pool on day one (like the generator and AAA, perhaps).
So, my vote is for the latter system. I don’t care if the positioning is randomised, it probably doesn’t matter that much.
Either way, whichever system we use, work on the assumption that none of them will be under human control on day one, and adjust for that risk.
Emperor Falkon’s initial revulsion over xamino’s squid addiction had subsided. Whilst he had no particular compulsion to partake in his delicacy, he no longer felt the need to beat him to death over it.
As I said initially, the lynch vote was purely RP. I’m operating on my belief that humans benefit, especially in this variation of Wolf Game, from not lynching on the first day. I will only vote again on this day if it’s required to cause a tie (and therefore block a lynch), unless someone presents me of especially compelling proof of someone else’s wolfiness.
I am firmly against a 2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2 split. I will not participate in this kind of split. It is a bad idea. All this does is open the door for the wolves to use their systems to destroy us. Given that one person will die tonight, and one person will die today, that leaves 14 people in systems, potentially with two systems having one person each. We cannot trust this system, which means any information we gain is questionable anyways, meaning it is useless.
With regards to an 8/8 split, may I suggest that propulsion and the generator be the top priority. Propulsion ensures we minimize our damage nightly, and the generator is critical for making sure all of our systems work.
On the ISS Relatively Fast this is what happened if the power grid went critical:
Power Grid Nightly: Players in control of the power grid can disable any other single system each night by disrupting power flow to it. Desperate: Players in control of the power grid may send a reactor into overload, damaging the power grid. All systems will be disabled until the power grid is repaired again. Critical: A critical failure of the power grid will reduce the total amount of power available. Secondary power system becomes available.
Presumably if the generator goes down, so do our most important systems, likely to include propulsion which in all likely hood has the largest power draw of all the systems.
The medbay is a good second choice, but I question its usefulness on day 2. The night 1 kill will be confirmed human, and the day 1 kill will in all likely-hood be totally random, thus telling us nothing about the alignment of those who vote for the deceased. I suggest repairing the medbay on day 2 along with one other system.
Thank you for explaining what I was trying to get across in my first post in a more coherent way. Hopefully new players read this and understand the situation more clearly.
That is pretty much what I said in my very first post when I suggested we all repair the same system, thus ensuring everyone has the same information, but only humans have real power.
Current System Votes, by system:
Weapons Locker (0) - Propulsion (5) - King_Cosmos, mattk50, LyskTrevise, Arkenbrien, Lomsor Generator (0) - SONAR (0) - RADAR (0) - Combat Information Center (CIC) (0) - Anti Air Artillery (AAA) (1) - Kreydis Medical Bay (3) - xamino, Topperfalkon, Nos Fi Crew Quarters (1) - cybercritic Scout Helicopter (0) -
I’m of the opinion that a 2-way split lets the wolves let us destroy ourselves. If they manage to gain control out of one of the two systems we repair (which can easily happen if we lynch someone today), we have to determine which of the systems occupants are wolves (and only if they play their cards immediately). By spreading people out, it will be a lot more obvious if the wolves use their systems for nefarious purposes, meaning they’ll have to stay hidden longer.
I’m strongly against a 2-way split, it puts one of the only two systems active on the first night potentially out of our control. As I said before, I think it’s one or many systems, but not two.
I began thinking the same thing as I thought out the 2 subsystem repair idea. Let’s go with the single subsystem repair for tonight. It’s the safest move and forces wolves to act and lets everyone watch them as they do it.
I’m also against the 2/2/2/2/2/2/2/2 split.
This will give either give the wolfs control of systems without us knowing it OR
it will force us to day lynch the second person of a system after his partner died in a night kill.
I will back the 2-way split now.
In theory the wolfs could try a power grab giving them control over one system.
But they would have witnesses.
If they try to use the system we will be informed and this will narrow down the potential wolfs to half the crew.
Reparing only one system will be not enough.
The damage rate was rather high last time and a game usually will not last for long enough to repair everything one by one.
@LyskTrevise Then propulsion is critical not the generator!
@martindevans Can you please also put the system status is post Nr1. Currently it’s only in post 44. That’s a bit hard to find…
Lysk is right. Med Bay is a better second day choice.
I would like to try for Propulsion and Crew Quarters (<-- potential Seer role)
–> Switching from Medical Bay to Crew Quarters
But I’m also prepared to switch back to propulsion on the end of the day if the two systems plan gets rejected by an majority.
