The Wolf Game - Panic Station - Werewolves Win!

#383

Unfortunately that wouldn't work this game - everyone had a role so you know something as soon as the game starts. I'll certainly consider that in the future though.

After Eliseni I'm under the impression that if I ever include resurrection mechanics in a game you will all lynch me.

Definitely including this next game.

1 Like
#384

Are we still getting one of these? :wink:

#385

Very little for the information. I think the game would go great if we made it into brackets of whatever number, that way the GM can say "at least two of these fellows are humans" so now you have 3 or so groups going nuts and blaming people they don't like in their group,

Also, wolves don't deserve roles, or at least only the leader should get one. 4 roles that know they can trust each other is a deadly thing.

#386

That's true, but that's also partly to try and get the humans to talk more openly. Besides, we had one passive role and three actives, one of which was stolen early (which was an OP role to be honest), the other was sacrificed to get Lomsor accepted as a human (I still don't quite understand how he managed that), and the third, my role, was mostly pot luck.

As a thief, I could steal a random item from a player, or plant an item. I also had a lockpick (single use) to defeat any locks. No-one ever bought locks, so my lockpick never got used, and the only consequential steal I seemed to be able to make was taking the dagger from xamino (what did that item do btw?).

Also, I'm disappointed Aquila didn't drink the poison, but tbh that ploy was a long shot.

#387

The Good

Roles

There were 17 roles in this game, including several new ones (and all the common roles were renamed to mislead people). All these roles will make a return (not necessarily all at once). Unfortunately all three of the new roles I was testing died in the first three lynches and didn't get very well tested expressionless

Items

When I was designing the 17 roles I wondered if I could find some way for players to design their own roles - this concept made it into the game as items. There was some confusion over how items worked, I think this was mostly people not understanding just how free they really were to do what they liked! Several interesting items were created - most publicly the wolfsbane potion plot by the wolves which involved 4 items (pen, paper, ink and a poison vial) in combination with a role (thief) to plant the item on another player anonymously.

I'm going to take some time to look over all the items people made in detail, and will see if I can adapt any of them into roles in a future game. I probably won't repeat the item mechanic again anytime soon, it felt like I was making up a lot of fairly arbitrary rules and although no players have complained I personally hate that.

The Bad

Destinations

Destinations made it into the design as something a bit like subsystems - a second thing to vote on during the day to stimulate discussion even when no one has any idea to loot. However, the humans guessed that the end of the line would be a big payoff early on, and then just plowed straight on with no real discussion - even the tunnel barely gave anyone pause for thought! All in all I think subsystems were way better than this.

I probably won't repeat this mechanic again in the future. Subsystems split players up into groups, encouraged secret nighttime shenanigans and generally promoted a lot of shifting alliances and discussions. Destinations did none of this, I suppose because they were far too linear, there were only three choices each day and it was heavily biased towards simply advancing forwards constantly.

The Ugly

3am day/night switchover

I apologise for a few blunders made switching over the day/night in this game. Most obvious being the miscount which nearly killed The_Sane (three players noticed the miscount within minutes of it happening). These mistakes happened because I foolishly made the switchover at such a stupid time! Combine that with an incredibly hot summer and I really wasn't in a good shape to be doing complicated spreadsheet management at that time of day.

The Future

I have two ideas for the setting of the next game, and various mechanics tied to each of the settings. There will definitely be more wolf games coming up. However, I'm considering reducing the number of players, perhaps to ~13 or 14 (I'll have to do some maths on victory probabilities with different player numbers). Thoughts?

5 Likes
#388

Dibs on a spot.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On one hand, it would make the game a bit more intense since there is less information total, and it's easier to comprehend sort of exactly what's going on. On the other hand, I enjoy the confusion and multitudes of information that we get from such a large amount of players assuming everyone can stay active and share information. I did my best to post but I didn't last very long, plus I don't have much experience on the human side of things creating alliances etc. I'm on the fence about it.

#389

This issue definitely didn't combine well with my lack of energy as there were 2 instances of me falling asleep and not sending important messages before the end of the day. I was entirely unimaginative when checking for items at the market, but if I hadn't fallen asleep I might have at least bought a spare poison vial, but I didn't buy anything :frowning:. And then there was that other time that.. err... nevermind. (@martindevans, shhhh)

3 Likes
#390

There was one night I'd planned on posting (which would have ended my AFK spree... but probably would have got me lynched), had I not almost literally passed out from the heat and tiredness.

I really wanted to play up a "fake" role, the smuggler, but I just didn't get the time to work it out and then post it without drawing way too much suspicion

#391

Nothing that I am aware of. I never even realized that it went missing, but Martin did write that the inventories aren't up to date.

#392

I don't think the number of players is really the issue. I think perhaps instead you could reduce the number of roles to have some generic humans or humans with explicitly minor abilities. This would make more humans more enthusiastic to ramp up the day time talk and take risks with less fear of drawing attention to themselves.

In addition I think the main thing for me at least is less the winning (just as well I guess) but more the excitement of the journey and the dynamic unfolding of the story. For that reason I really liked the vampire Eliseni mechanic surprise despite the balancing issues.

So I recommend... that you keep being imaginative!

2 Likes
#393

You had a gun and 3 bullets @NobleBrutus and didn't do anything? If you shot 3 random people you would have hit a wolf...

Half the day votes were never cast, I find that somewhat disturbing.

I would suggest role transfer or removal as a partial solution.

#394

Yes... and that would have helped how? By the time that was true we were known to be 5 v 4 so hitting even one human would immediately spell the end of the game. If I hit a wolf they probably would not die as we have seen from other games, it was a lead bullet for a reason I think.

EDIT:
Just got back from Russia yesterday, it was awesome even though I could barely understand anything anyone I talked to said for most of the trip. smile Spent many a night on a sleeper train pondering over this game. I also coincidently attended a language exchange meeting in Moscow and played three games of this with 10 Russians practising their English, great fun.

5 Likes
#395

You had the gun the whole game, it could have helped.

#396

Yeah, unfortunately I never felt confident enough to use it... and Lomsor was ever so persuasive.

If it was human consensus to lynch Enginish or to lynch Cosmos I'd have shot them first for an effective alignment check but the only human to be advocating that appeared to be Aquila. No other lynch seemed crucial enough to warrant me blowing my cover for.

1 Like
#397

Yep, it did nothing. I gave out some thematic items to all players (based on their role) which did nothing at all. Some players suggested functions for these items, and I allowed them (e.g. the lockpick for the thief). With my later ban on melee weapons Xamino ended up with a fairly useless item there!

This is how wolf games traditionally worked - just a few very important special roles. For example we've had loads here with just the medic/Guardian Angel/Seer combo (I generally drop in at least 3 more extra roles to mix things up a bit).

The problem is that the non-role players were often a bit screwed. Players with roles had actions they could take to prove their humanity to other humans and thus could form alliances and stuff, non role players just kinda ended up on the sidelines. I think this is why the subsystem's system was so great: no one had a role and thus they weren't afraid of drawing attention to themselves, but no one was special.

I'd like feedback from a few other people on this. I honestly thought everyone hated the idea of third parties now, can I consider adding third parties into future games?

Always!

Next game I'm just going to be killing afk players (with the rules specifying exactly what afk means, and a warning before you die).

3 Likes
#398

Well... I don't hate them. But then, I was king of the vampires.
As long as they're balanced, very secret, and don't take away from the wolves vs. humans aspect of the game (except at the end of the game/under rare circumstances) I'm okay with them.

And honestly, while I might complain while it's happening, in hindsight shenanigans is always more fun than predictability and rigorous fairness.

I like this solution.

1 Like
#399

Cise is always a wolf, even when he isn't.

I hate all of you except for martin, who has graciously allowed me to live one extra phase so that I can get my hopes up only to watch them be crushed before my eyes on night two when I inevitably die.

Please don't do this, I need more cannon fodder to take the heat off of me next game.

The last time you did that lets see..:
TerranAmbass: Human (1)
Pendrokar: Human (2, technically you didn't directly kill him.. but eh)
LucasFin: Vampire (3, not a wolf)

:laughing: :joy:

Please no third parties. Creativity is fine, but like.. I think the game should be clear in its objective.

4 Likes
#400

Terran killed Pendrokar, he could have killed a wolf instead, that was not my call, and Lucas was the king vampire that we had no idea existed before the shooting, they also won that game and the bullet did not kill him, he was lynched, better off dead if you ask me. I just think it's a waste of a role not using it, also not one autopsy this game and somebody did have a medical kit...

#401

I autopsied Lucas to see if we had hit anything - we didn't. Since there was a tie the next day, I didn't get a chance to autopsy anyone new, and then I died the first of the double nights. Plus, I only started with 1 med kit, and I bought an extra one at redwater which was used on Lucas. I didn't want to waste it on Ovog who would have been the only other person I could autopsy.

#402

Sharing that information would have probably been a good idea, or maybe I missed it?