You make a respectable case.
However I am unwilling to sell my soul to the vampire cause just yet. I still have reservations. We still have time for more discussion.
Thatās the best I can ask for. Discuss away, Iām sure you have some reservations. Iāll do my best to dispel them.
Whatās all this about selling souls though? Vampires still have soulsā¦ Right? 
Okay, I can see youāre all not super thrilled about the plan. Howās this for an alternative:
Tie the vote today.
Wolves, target Lomsor. Lomsor, have the GA protect you.
Let me bite Krishna tonight, then we lynch him tomorrow (day 6). Youāll see that I can indeed revive people when he wakes up at the end of night 6.
Now, to show you that this plan has literally no downsides, let me give you a run-down of the worst possible scenario. In which Iām a liar and canāt revive people, Krishna is a wolf, Topperfalkon is a wolf, and the wolves betray us and donāt target Lomsor tonight.
Night 5: Someone other than Lomsor dies.
Day 6: 6 people left. Krishna gets voted and dies.
Night 6: Someone gets killed despite the existence of a GA. (~66% probability)
Day 7: 4 people left. Topperfalkon gets voted and dies.
Night 7: All of the wolves are dead. No one dies.
Day 8: 3 people left. I get voted to die because I lied, humans win.
I am forced to vote for wolves every day because Iām guaranteed a loss if I donāt.
Xamino getting revived as a Vampire will be a non-issue if you just protect him with the GA every night. Even if he does die and come back as a vampire, it will be a 2-2 tie at the end and the game will end in stalemate.
So, not even the possibility of a non-human victory in this scenario.
Also, for reference, hereās how I see it actually playing out:
Night 5: No one dies (Lomsor is protected by the GA)
Day 6: Krishna is lynched.
Night 6: All of the wolves are dead. No one dies.
Day 7: Krishna is revived. Game ends here when everyone realizes Iām telling the truth.
In summary, you have nothing to lose by tying the vote up for today. And potentially lots to gain.
At the very least, letās talk about this. All anyoneās said is ānice plan but too riskyā or āI donāt trust that Enginish fellaā. What concrete risks are you worried about? Are there any pitfalls I may have missed? Letās work this out.
2 Likes
Soā¦ why not go ahead and lynch Krishna today anyway? If he was the last wolf weāve won without having to be undead; if he wasnāt we can still keep to your plan. I donāt quite get the purpose of tying the vote today. Iām especially concerned of killing people whom I think are humanā¦
I would like to hear Toppers opinion to this.
I would vote for Killing the murderous werewolves and then tell the Vampires
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We lived side by side for hundreds of years. Why shouldnāt that work anymore.
I donāt want to tie the vote today and let any non-human factions have an extra night.
If the wolves choose to target one of your bitten people tonight then we will be fairly sure and can act out your plan.
You donāt have a reflection, you are kind of a zombie and you are near devoid of emotion - if you still have a soul Iād be surprised. The great teachings of Antamera do not explicitly exclude vampires howeverā¦ perhaps we could in fact get the best of both worlds - our soul can go and join Antamera in his greatness while our physical form assumes immortality. I shall send a raven to my fellows at the Hidden Citadel at once.
During which theyāll accomplishā¦? I already showed that a wolf victory is impossible. If youāre already open to becoming vampires in the case that Krishna isnāt the last wolf, why not accept it right now and let Krishna win too?
No, Iām pretty sure the remaining humans will just abandon the newly made Vampire, even though theyāve been a diligent ally the entire game, and even though the remaining humans have nothing to lose by letting them win. Thatās what Iām seeing right now.
This is a perfect example of āThe Devils Advocateā.
Providing there are no more tricks up anyone elseās sleeves and you are telling the whole truth or lying completely. The biggest worry is if you are telling a half truth
We cannot verify what you say so we must be cautious. Also what about all the humans who have already laid down their lives in this game who we would be making lose by becoming vampires? Is this how you propose to honour Mattk50ās immense contributions to our cause?
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2 Likes
Or Lucasās immense contributions to your cause? He built the alliance in the first place! Or mine? I was the only reason Cise was lynched at all!
This is why I came up with a perfectly reasonable plan that will absolutely verify what I say, while only risking the life of a supposed wolf!
Well, day ends in an hour.
If youād have responded to my original post with ālogical arguments wonāt change our minds, moral arguments wonāt change our minds, we donāt care about the risk of one of us becoming a vampire, and weāre going to disregard everything you say without even providing concrete counter-argumentsā, then I wouldnāt have bothered to type this much.
Sorry Krishna, sorry Lucas, sorryā¦ Possible second vampire I donāt know about. Tried. Failed.
We donāt trust you enough to go this route.
Iām glad you gave us this option, but however reasonable and thought out your plan is, I donāt want to be part of it.
Because even if it is a game. I like being human. Maybe I would have gone with it with the original Vamprire Lord ā¦ not some kind of half blood!
Probability of getting killed is high enough anyway.
I confess I have a desire to exact revenge on Krishna for almost lynching me yesterday.
I have had a raven back from the hidden citadel, if the wolves prove your integrity tonight Iāll stand with you tomorrow when Krishna has been suitably punished for his sins against the priesthood of Antamera. I volunteer to be bitten in Krishnaās place tonight.
@Enginish New issue. You are correct that there have been three nights of biting, but how do you know exactly which two other than yourself were bitten? Lucas bit on nights one and two, you on night 4. How do you know the identity of Lucasā other victim?
On night one Lucas claimed, in the original alliance thread, to have marked Xamino for revival. Xamino, Lomsor, and Cosmos can confirm this. On night two he bit me.
Additionally, when I was given the Dracula role I was informed Xamino was already bitten. Last night I personally bit Lomsor.
@martindevans as you havenāt ended the day yet, Iām requesting an extension. Iāve been busy and this is getting complicated. I suggest the extension be to the normal time tomorrow.
Enginish, it seems like Iām next for the block regardless, so itās in my interests to follow your plan. Who would you have me vote for this day?
Edit: Also, this means my earlier vote has been removed, for whoever is tallying.
So nothing else but self preservation? I hoped you would argue ā¦ maybe reveal something.
Sorry about that I had another engagement that I had totally forgotten and has only just ended!
Iāll extend the day.
Day will end in 21 hours (20:00 utc)
Tally
Krishna - 4 - NobleBrutus, Lomsor, King_Cosmos, Xamino
Xamino - 2 (3) - Enginish, Krishna, (Topperfalkon)
Enginish wishes me to ātake a chance on himā [credit to Enginish] however Iām sticking to what I said at least for now - kill Krishna and see if we get verification from a night kill tomorrow morning.
2 Likes
Topperfalkon, your action should depend on what Noblebrutus ends up doing. If he votes for Xamino, you should just keep your vote cancelled. If he cancels his vote but doesnāt recast it, you should vote for Xamino.
If Noble doesnāt change anythingā¦ Well, your vote placement becomes a moot point.
Right-o
More words to appease the forum fairy.