Wait, did I miss something? In what parallel universe did INovae use CR’s fame?
Yes, there was a lengthy article, on CIG’s site, talking about Star Citizen and some other space games, like I:B. Yes, there was a good word from him, in a single sentence, about the prototype. And that’s about it.
When the kickstarter was launched, the word was given out as loudly as possible everywhere, not only on CIG.
Did CR’s good word help somewhat INovae’s KS? Probably, maybe… I’d love to say “it’s classified”, but I’m sure no one really knows.
Is INovae using CR’s fame? That’s an outlandish claim.
For the better and the worst, CR has crystallized huge passions for a huge project, with a great hype and a mighty moutain of money.
Impartial criticism is healthy, and so far I’ve only seen that coming from INovae.
As far as I’m concerned, I wish the best to Star Citizen and hope to play it some day.
I was not saying it this “Machiavellian” way. To use CR’s “radiance” if you prefer, but yes, when somebody like him says something like this on your project, it helps.
The fact that INovae used it on top of its KS page proves that they think that it could help too, isn’t it ?
I said INovae to not be disobliging with @INovaeFlavien . I think (but I may be wrong) Keith and him have different feelings about Star Citizen and Chris Robert…
When discussing here, Flavien (for every posts I remember about CR and CIG) talks like the early backer of Star Citizen he probably is. IMO, what everybody sees from the outside, is that the CTO of INovae casts the “vaporware badge” on SC and the doubt on CR intentions.
For somebody that passed through exactly the same problem (because he tried to do something judged impossible, and he succeeded), I can’t understand (maybe my feelings on this are simply wrong)
It’s also amusing that for each project that takes more than 2 or 3 years, people begin to complain about feasibility and honesty of the project… .
Illfonic is a game dev company too, and a smaller one than RSI, and it’s also composed of humans that must work to feed their families, and are probably under NDA so they can’t defend themselves. I really dislike that the SC community is casting the blame on them w/o any proof. And even if they messed up, as I’ve been saying, that means that RSI allowed them to mess up. So responsability is necessarily shared and I don’t see how you could argue the opposite if you’re a bit honnest. And to be perfectly clear, I have no contacts with Illfonic so I’m not “defending” them out of self interest, I just don’t like that “bullying” on a smaller company that can’t answer.
It’s really pissing me off that people see the world in black & white. My views on SC aren’t black & white. I can’t say a thing about SC w/o it being interpreted in a strongly negative way. What I’m saying about Illfonic is an observation that their development isn’t smooth sailing. What a shock, a game company with a hundred millions dollars of budget that grew instantly in a few years, is having management issues ? Never happened before. I don’t see how that’s calling them vaporware or casting doubt on CR’s intentions. As far as I’m concerned, it’s pretty clear what CR’s intentions are and that the game isn’t vaporware.
I was referring to previous posts (I remember you saying that you was wondering when the budget will be off and the game will not be delivered, sorry if I’m wrong). It’s also pretty clear that your opinion can evolve with time. I don’t see the world nor in black & white, nor in grey’s nuances, but in colors (visible ones for me, though). Kamui Shiro represents exactly that, the world is not black and white (If I tell you why, I spoil you, but don’t pay attention of the image of kamui with both black and white wings, you’ll get it only in the last minutes of the anime).
I agree with you, it’s a shared fault. Maybe Illfonic was unexperimented and tried to hide it, maybe SC had the head under water and didn’t check third-party’s work correctly, maybe both, etc… there is a lot of explanations possible. The fact is that I defend SC like you defend Illfonic.
In programming (for what I know), it’s common sense that the client is never wrong Even if he didn’t tell you what you could not guess…
Seriously, I wonder, in this case, if Illfonic could/should have asked for that “assets have to fit with internal works” thing ? I wonder how this could have not been discussed at all, by any concerned part
I could totally agree with you if I was not sure that the entire SC community is not bullying on Illfonic. Certainly some stupid reactions from a group of them, like in every community. You know it, everything is not black or white
Edit : to be fair, you said when/if, not just when => “I have concerns about their progress, too… or more specifically, when/if they’re going to run out of funding and fail to deliver.” post 204
Actually, not true. Usually the developer creates a document (the specifications) together with the client, which clearly and explicitly states all the functionality, that the software has to offer for it to be considered finished. It is done to prevent the client from screwing over the developer, by claiming that “function abc was supposed to be part of the software / the software isn’t up to specifications”, and not paying the developer for the work both parties agreed on in advance. If the client barges through the door and states “I wanted to have the software have this functionality”, the developer can point to the document and say: “that is not, what we agreed on. You’re wrong.”
Of course it is possible to extend the scope of the project, but not without negotiating the new conditions. Extra work usually comes with extra cost to the client.
And the client uses specs eventual ambiguous parts or not fully described technical or functional details to obtain more w/o paying it as evos… and when you want the client to be happy you let him obtain what he wants (most of the time), almost if it’s a big client with a lot of possible other projects to win.
Which is why I stated that the specification has to be clearly and explicitly stated. It is the developers’ responsibility to prevent the client from adding ambiguity to the specifications.
However, usually it is also in the clients own best interest to make clear-cut demands in the specifications, as the developer can easily be held viable for not fulfilling a clear-cut function in the allotted time-frame, however the developer might be able to cheat out on any ambiguously defined functions if the project goes to court. Again, usually.
It’s never perfect. To recenter to SC and Illfonic, I seriously don’t know how this detail could not have been discussed or put on table by any part, it’s strange ! I really don’t know anything about design, but is scale (and coherence with other things) not something that you have to systematically take into account ?
This is why I think that was at last responsibility of Illfonic to prevent the big issue to happen.
Speaking from your own experience (in which case, it might be better for you to step up your game), or just assuming from an outside position for the sake of this discussion?
And no, scale and coherence doesn’t have to be considered, if it isn’t stated in the specifications (not to mention that scale and coherence are so generic terms, that without further specification, nobody can be sure that both parties are talking about the same thing when talking about it). Nothing that isn’t part of the specification has to be considered at all. That is the whole reason for the specification to exist in the first place.
I don’t know what happened between illfonic and cig, nor do I have any interest in blaming any side. It is up to both parties’ discretion to figure out what went how wrong where, when, why, and if there actually is one side (or both or none) to blame for.
Ah, okay. Got it. So assumptions from an outsider.
And inspired by your late edit, I now realize that it even has the added bonus of you trying to bring philosophical rhetorics to the table in an attempt to validate your own position.
Philosophical rhetorics are always fun
hurry, all kneel before CR, without him nobody could have done anything.
They say the weel was invented by him when he tries to find a way to move a ship that has a vertical lift off.
Kamui, you seem to think that if you are not a professional Developer, you should not venture an opinion? I gather that was the intent of the video. At any rate, I am not a Developer and my experience derives from gaming - and something called common sense which is rarely applied by Developers and their supporters.
For example, many of us lessor mortals stated long before Elite came out that creating a galaxy with billions of systems was, to quote Ellie’s father, ’ an awful waste of space’. And given there is virtually nothing to do outside populated areas comprising of 1% of the galaxy, it appears our uninformed opinions were on target. What’s more, a few of us, albeit a very few, stated a long time ago, after SC began slapping on stretch goals like hot dogs at a weenie roast, that CryEngine wouldn’t be able to handle the expansion - and tada, damn those rooms render so well - after the doors open; to say nothing of the endless rewrites and delays that has plagued SC.
And now we have Dual Universe with its very awesome concept followed with a very brilliant idea of allowing players to write their own scripts. lol. Perhaps someone might want to tell the Developer but Game Balancing is actually a thing. Also allowing players to fly around in massive penises probably won’t go down to well in the end. At least for those of us who like immersion.
Of course there are some misguided opinions out there and often they miss the mark. But there are good solid opinions and ideas from lay-gamers so I wouldn’t be so dismissive. Of course this requires thinking for yourself which seems in pretty short supply these days. SC fans flocking to DU simply because CR offered a few positive words is just such an example. Some simply just want to be told what to do and what to think…it’s sad but that seems to be the nature of certain, cough, fans. And sadly, some Developers, are more than happy to accommodate their almost manic desperation to be a part of the herd - no questions asked. No wonder game development is in such a state.
Flavien, save yourself a trip to the hospital by following one important rule: when someone replies in any kind of non-constructive way to your post, ignore it. Their post deserve neither your time, nor your attention, nor your analytical skills, nor your elevated stress levels. Seek out the constructive posts and devote yourself to them. The rest are noise.
There are plenty of people here whose style of interaction is fundamentally rooted in drama, and I just skip over their posts. It would be great if the forum software provided a way to actually, truly, ignore posters as if their forum activity just never took place.
I think he posted the video in response to my previous post, but then again, I might be overestimating my own importance Maybe the video was posted just because kamui found it to be funny and topical.
As it turns out it isn’t that much of a deal. Sure, there are the occasional people who will make a penis-shaped starship, but there probably wont be enough people creating these ships to break your immersion. Not to mention that immersion is so subjective, that not being able to create penis shaped ships might be just as immersion breaking as it could be getting exposed to one. It is not the first game to allow that, and probably wont be the last.
It worked so far, so there’s no reason why it suddenly should go … *puts on glasses* to bust.
YEEEEEEEEAAAAAH
(Get it? because bust is another word for boobies? Not funny? Ah, kthxbai)
@dekaku It’s not a philosophical rethoric, it is chaos theory (or butterfly effect). I don’t see how it could not validate my position
edit: it is to say that you can’t control anything. I have another video for this one. In it, you are Cuba Gooding Jr and I am Anthony Hopkins just kidding (but it can help to see what I try to say with it’s never perfect)
You perfectly understood my intentions (but what is perfection? :)). Because it’s funny and topical and a good way to assert that the client is always right
I was reminded of a philosophical discussion. You know, the whole questioning of: “What IS perfection”, “Can perfection be achieved” and so on. A topic that has been debated since ye olde times in greece. I wasn’t trying to invalidate your effort to use the concept of perfection as a means to validate your position, I was just acknowledging and appreciating you taking that route.
On a sidenote: Your definition of chaos theory (which you coined as “you can’t control anything”, if I understood correctly), is debatable (but that would have to be best debated outside of this thread)
Some people want giant penises in space and some don’t. Seems to me there are already giant dicks here on earth who want to spoil a game so it makes sense.
Even if he didn’t tell you what you could not guess…
