I-Novae: Engine Screenshot Thread!

Ha! From the man himself, no landing on the planets for big ships. :wink:

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Wheather the weight of the ship is supported on thrusters or on physical struts is irrelevant in terms of structural integrity requirements.
… Unless we’re using some magic that applies thrust to all parts of the ship simultaneously but we know that isn’t the case because of the glowy thrusty things at the back.

[quote=“cybercritic, post:768, topic:582, full:true”]
Ha! From the man himself, no landing on the planets for big ships.[/quote]
He answered my question on the difference between landing and hovering (although missing the point). He didn’t say no landing…

PS. I’m not pro or anti-landing. I just want the mechanics to be believable if its decided that caps can’t land.

Ships better have inertialess drives or the crew is jelly on the wall.

Ships can still have rocket drives (chuckles) if the ship itself has Star Trek style inertial dampers. The entire ship becomes a single quantum object, and pushing on any part of it pushes on all of it.

I’m more inclined to say that the glowie bits in the back represent some kind of field effect exhaust. It’s not the propulsive force, but rather a glow from venting some drive byproduct.

If ships have inertialess drives that affect everything within M meters of the drive, and the effect propagates (if I’m within M meters of the drive and you’re within M meters of me, you’re affected), then moving near a large mass not already affected by a drive would cause a sudden shock to the drive. The larger the shock, the greater the potential for damage.

Entering an atmosphere would immediately shock the drive into next week. Landing on an airless world would do the same. (Humorously, ships flying through a planetary ring would end up toting around a whole mess of debris that got within M meters of the ship)

So why not just float down to within a couple millimeters of an airless planet’s surface and then turn off the drive? Because the M value above is much larger than that. So now the capital has to be dropped from M meters onto something that catches it. Or the ship itself has some more conventional means of dealing with the drop. Small ships, maybe. Large ships, no.

Ugh. Inertial dampers could catch pretty much anything. So no inertial dampers. But if there are no rockets, we don’t need them. The drive ‘field’ takes care of the inertia aspect, and we’re turning that off in order to avoid damaging it, so we’re back to falling. No capital landings.

In contrast, a capital can coast up to a space station, switch off the drive at beyond M meters, then the station can extend an M meter long docking port.

Remember: a unique fiction can always be manufactured for any unique situation. A landing is a unique situation, so some unique trait of landings can be leveraged to make the fiction work. Either way. Landing or no landing.

As @Lomsor says, go back to the board game level and focus on gameplay. The fiction will work itself out.

I think 200 meters would be a good cut-off point. Most frigates and light haulers would be able to land, but anything above that starts to get into ‘capital’ ships, and would probably be impractical anyway.

@Bentware

No. I’m expressing incredulity at the idea that capital ships entering an atmosphere would prohibitively expensive in a society where a hundred-meter interstellar-capable spacecraft can be acquired as easily as a Cessna would be today.

Are you really saying that making a spacecraft capable of entering the atmosphere of a planet would increase it’s cost by fifty times? It seems that my incredulity knows no bounds today.

Let me remind you that this is a society where starship technology is so cheap that it is within the capability of the average citizen, such the players are likely to be, to own and operate interstellar spacecraft.

The ability to enter the atmosphere of an earth-like planet wouldn’t even be a factor in the price.

I am assuming the spacecraft in question are applying force, such as to resist acceleration due to gravity, maneuver in a dogfight, and other such activities. Doing so in such activities requires the use and application of energy, as work is being done.

How do you mean, and, more importantly, how is that even relevant?

@hrobertson

I would treat it as a check. Is the spacecraft in contact with another surface? If yes, it’s landed. It no, it’s hovering.

@JB47394
I’m fine with that, but that means caps can’t come too close to planets, including hovering. (I’m fine with that too.)

@TerranAmbass
My point was that if you can hover a few metres above the surface then that is pretty much equivalent to landing.

The fiction that I presented was for the no-landing gameplay. It can be reworked to allow everything from capital landings to capital hovering to the inability to enter any atmosphere at all.

Say that the propagation effect only kicks in for a given density of gas. Or the shock effect is relative, allowing a ship to slowly move into ever-denser atmosphere. As the density increases, the ship must slow because the greater the change in density, the worse the shock (wind gusts are bad). A battleship trying to reach sea level on Earth would find that it has to move at 1mm per day by the time it got to 10km from the surface. Any faster, and it’ll start shocking the drive badly. Ultimate effect: battleships don’t reach sea level on Earth.

Dust in the atmosphere could also change things around or have no effect at all. Or only have an effect if it’s a certain type of dust. Or if it’s above a certain temperature. And so on.

There are piles of effects that can be included. It’s just a matter of choosing the gameplay. The fiction can be worked out from there.

“Context” if one were to suggest a sort of back story for last weeks screenshots. :wink: the fleet has now attained a higher orbit.

First image, a variation on the screenshots from last week.

The next 2 images show the fleet in a “Low Planetary Orbit” Each shot has a different parent star temperature, which explains the colour variation between the two.

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They’re only orbiting if they’re in free drift and the path leaves them following some elliptical course around the planet. I assume these ships are leaving the planet - and I can only assume that this is a tourist run because they’re sightseeing the planet instead of diligently pursuing their destination. That, or it’s a victory parade flyover for the peasants on the ground. I would expect a departing flight to go straight up. I have no intention of spending five minutes game time just getting 100km up.

The second one is awesome, Hutchings. I think I’m a bit burnt out on rings, but I also love the inky blackness of space. It underscores the fact that it’s a hard vacuum, the realm of spaceships. The first one makes me think of blimps. The arch of the ring in the third makes me think of ships passing under a bridge.

The second one does what I’ve been asking for - it finds the cool in space.

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I think these screenshots have mutated into writing prompts…

Well as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words, and I sense a novel coming on :smile:

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I think these pictures, more than any before them, really capture the scale of what Infinity has in store for us. Really impressive!

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Common misconception. As it happens, if you wish to get into an orbit you’ll actually spend more time accelerating horizontally than vertically (by an order of magnitude, ignoring drag, on Earth-like bodies).

You don’t know how there economy works.
Traveling interstellar may be as cheep a buying new shoes. Making a new ship may be as expensive as keeping your family alive. I can’t think Infinity the MMO will be Christmas land.

I’m assuming this isn’t candyland. I’m expecting to have to work hard to get a good ship. In Battlescape I expect the military will be handing out ships. I expect a meritocracy. (I’m doomed)

(in answer to your being two dementional) Your only looking at the subject from one point of view. The big point. I doubt Infinity has the economy dun. (every body might be wrong :open_mouth:

Space wales, porn, a major disease or me just needing to get the game.
Game me. :wink:

The more topical misconception is that Infinity ships need to orbit. These things are capable of such high accelerations that orbits are passé. Orbits are for vehicles that live on a budgeted specific impulse. Given that the Isp of Infinity ships is infinite, there’s no need. Just leave the planet and go where you need. Straight lines, not Hohmann transfer orbits.

And I’ll point out that neither do you. If your entire argument is going to be “we don’t know, therefore you’re wrong” then a brick wall would make a much better debate opponent.

I’m making inferences and extraploations based on what’s been presented so far and what we know of the MMO’s intended gameplay.

Unless the devs have changed their minds since the old forums went down, we’re not capsuleer equivalents. Ergo, we must be private individuals.

All spacecraft, as far as we know, are capable of interplanetary and interstellar travel, down to the smallest one-man shuttles. Such craft appear to be as much a part of daily life in the Infinity universe as aircraft are today. Thus, drawing parallels between the two is not unfair.

A single-engine Cessna is about the price of a really nice car. I believe it reasonable to assume that a small spacecraft, say 50 meters, plays the same role. Thousands of people make such purchases every year.

It’s not unreasonable to assume it to be the same for a Deltan, Centauran, or Star Fold citizen.

You know what, in the interest in civil discussion, I’m going to ignore the blatant ad homs.

Define “good”. And then explain to me why that rules out private individuals, such as ourselves, from purchasing smaller/lesser/whatever than that.

Pot, kettle. You’ve already decided that capital ships in atmosphere is stupid and refuse to entertain any possibility otherwise. JB has done a better job of arguing against it, and I’m not ashamed to admit that there have been several times that I have considered xir arguments.

What does that even mean?

Orbits are for vehicles that have a reason to be in an orbit. Who says they’re leaving the planet?

Maybe they’re doing a topographic scan of the entire planet, which is most swiftly done from a low polar orbit. Maybe they’re going to another location on the planet, for which straight line travel is less than optimal. Maybe one of their crew has a rare heart condition that can only be fixed with a free-fall operation. Maybe the captain just likes being weightless, or is planning some Ender’s Game-like wargame in one of the shuttle bays. Maybe, and I know this is a crazy idea, the place they’re going to isn’t straight above them and they don’t feel like waiting for the planet to turn around before leaving.

We don’t know this. We do know, by Word of God™, that Low Orbit is where the ships are going. Reason can be whatever.

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Never said I did.

Let me see. This game is just to get some money, there name out, then experience, some work on what might make it into the MMO.

Being an old gamer that has been to many gaming conventions. That refers to games that are just giving away things in the game with little effort. So please tell me what the joke is so I can use it properly.

It has to do with value when compared to the other ships. As it is a sliding scale any answer would be useless.

Try reading what one of the developers, if not two, have said on the subject.
I find it takes me out of the game as much as a giant taco that craps ice cream. (South Park. Both funny and in space but not what I want to see in a game trying to look realistic.)

As in “seeing the picture” then “Seeing the big picture”

This picture is simply awesome. :smile:


On another note, we might need to rename this thread to “I-Novae: Engine Screenshot Thread and Discussion”, and make a new thread, with the current title, and use that as a mod-only thread where to post all the pretty pictures, so newcomers won’t have to dig through 780 posts to see them.

Just a thought…

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@Hutchings has been adding the new screenshots to his original post (although this last batch is missing), so they’ll see them all right at the top.

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I’ve almost become so numb to seeing beautiful screenshots from the i-novae engine that I didn’t pay much attention to this one, but you’re right, it really is a spectacularly evocative image. Think this might be my desktop wallpaper for a while.

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