Asteroid backer week-end and patch 0.5.0.0 - FEEDBACK

#22

@Lomsor by sluggish i mean it feels extremely slow when trying to change directions in strafing

#23

I think the issue might be that if forward/back accels arent strong enough it can be hard to push onto other players and leads to consistently more distant fights. More distant fights feel much slower, since the ships are moving less on eachothers screen (and one of the only self-speed indicators is how the OTHER ship moves when you press a strafe). If a new player is overshooting because they’re spamming boost that’s kind of an obvious learning experience thing, not something that should need to be shaped entirely around newbie stuff… I ran into some players i hadnt seen before today, and a few times the fights just ended in a dull stalemate in a way that wouldnt have happened previously (due to combo of the hitbox and maybe the boost/overcharge changes). If a newbie gets into a fight and it just stalemates even if they’re fighting a vet, its just like, it doesnt matter how controllable the newbie’s ship is, they arent going to get a good impression of the game.

For prioritizing the experience for new players i don’t think the solution lies in nerfing these kind of aspects of flight. The issue is at this point, in terms of actually playtesting for us it’s easy to look at the deepest/harder parts of the gameplay from the veteren perspective, but nerfing those things often aren’t the key issues for newer players, and also are gonna have negative effects on the flight model which would otherwise be what those newbies end up staying for long term.

Ex, for overshooting one thing that’d help everyone, newbies and vets without lowering depth is better UI and indication surrounding closing speed. Things like maybe straight up giving a predicted intercept distance or time. If the player has a closing speed thats way too high for the current distance (doing a basic if x < v*t+.5at^2), a flashing warning could show with the keybind for slowing down right there. A dedicated brake button would also help, sure vets know how to brake by turning assist on and letting go but having a button to force brake on the spacebar is an easy “save me” button to have. The closing speed UI element could also change color depending on how close to optimal it is, the idea is context sensitive tutorials/helpers in general.

Just from in my thinking for a game with Newtonian flight as a main attraction, the objective isn’t to avoid new players needing to understand it to have fun, the objective is to help them understand it asap, because once they understand it they are invested in it, and then they can enjoy it and know this is the only game they can come to get it. If the game feels completely like some star wars game’s controls right away, sure it’s easy right away but that also means it’s boring right away because it’s already familiar. Whereas focusing on depth basically guarantees a long term pilot community, and then the initial newbie experience can be helped along in a variety of other ways without sacrificing the core game. Things like the massive visual improvements, loadout/ranks/xp, voiceovers and general game atmosphere can hold people in the game long enough for them to get invested in the gameplay, and tutorials and better UI can speed up that process.

4 Likes
#24

@INovaeFlavien with increased acceleration you can actually use the strafing itself as a major component of aiming, which does actually makes things both easier to hit and easier to evade, as seen in similar games. As it is right now I find it harder to hit targets because I have to rely on pitch+yaw mostly and the strafe is way too slow to keep my pip on target while keeping them in front of me

seriously, don’t be afraid to crank it up. Would be good to at least be able to try this. I don’t understand why the concept of a “fast” fighter is somehow bad for gameplay when we have seen this in working beautifully before

#25

Hmmm… No. I think you’re all a bit confused about the state the current interceptor is in. I can’t blame you, we’re experimented various nerfs in the past, but most of them were cancelled / reverted. The current interceptor is very similar, in terms of mobility and accelerations, to what it was a year or two ago.

I can’t crank up the strafe acceleration, because it’s already at like 90% of the main propulsion’s. To go higher means somehow the side thrusters would provide more acceleration than the mains, which is an idea I absolutely do not like.

What has been nerfed ( and stayed nerfed ) is boosting and overcharge. Overcharging propulsion isn’t used that much in combat, so that can’t be an issue. Boosting is probably the main culprit from the loss of perceived mobility. There’s also the soft speed cap, but that one can be disabled in the launcher dialog.

And of course, in this last patch, accurate hull intersections mean there are more hit misses. It would be possible to keep a bounding box for hits detection on the server and accurate intersections for visual effects on the client, but I’m not sure if it’s the direction we want to go into.

#28

Just in case it helps, I like where the interceptor is at currently. The only thing that might help is increased energy regeneration, so that the boost can be used a little more while still being able to fire energy weapons.

#29

i like what i see so far, it even runs nicely in 4k-high on my radeon7.
which is sadly rather useless since the config for the gamecontrollers are not done.
i wrote my own config, but once i get to the big ships all the controls change.
suddenly my viewpitch is inverted, making it impossible to shoot anything and for some reason my ship always tries to fly towards where im looking at making it impossible to use the turrets without loosing control of the ship.
and thats pretty much it.

PROS: runs great, looks great, feels great, seems bugfree?(however thats possible)

CONS: menus, etc. need some prettying up and controlls need to get done. a game you cant control is just an exercise in frustration.

7 Likes
#30

edited for phone typos

okay, my apologies it looks like I have misunderstood what was causing it to “feel slower” - apparently there was a reduction to just the forward accel recently that I overlooked. Couldn’t see it on the patch notes for this one so maybe it was another recent one (been out of the loop for a little while like i said), I should have been more careful and properly gotten myself all up to date before jumping to conclusions :sweat_smile:

i think this is likely what made it feel slower since as Matt50k explained, it naturally increases the avg combat distance. I do remember it being really fun before when fights were a little closer imo

i understand the game is getting close so might be a little late to bring up this idea, but maybe there could also be something allowing players being able to alter flight parameters for testing purposes at any time? Matt mentioned this idea in our discussion and I think it could be interesting in getting you some really helpful feedback, if possible

again sorry for my confusion/conclusion-jumping I feel rlly bad for wasting your time with all that. hopefully I can give some actually-useful feedback out of this

#31

Small bug in the menu here … the top buttons are offset to one side for me (Extreme, borderless window, 3444x1440 resolution, 1080Ti)

also, the ultrawide viewport creates a strong fisheye-lens effect. It’s seems like the aspect ratio isn’t completely right (21:9). The stretching of round planets gets really, really extreme on the left and right screen edges.

EDIT: A fixed FOV would explain the effect. A way to adjust it would be nice, maybe through the UserClientConfig.xml

BTW … the new curve on the warp tunnel effect is much better, it looks absolutely stunning at low speeds. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:
But at high speeds it still gets way to dense for me. My personal sweetspot for max effect would be around the 600km/s mark right now, maybe a smidge higher. But at 1000km/s you already get the feeling you’re flying through milk.

DreamKeys

2 Likes
#32

Hey I-Novae!

So I had my first round of the game during the asteroid backer weekend! I’ve only been waiting to play in this engine since when I first saw it in 2010. Holy Mackerel, does it deliver. It is a real treat to fly around in, and I had a blast flailing around with the newtonian flight model, shooting at everything that moved.

Being the true newb I just jumped straight into the game before looking for any tutorials or help. I was able to figure most of the controls out by virtue of going through the joystick setup process, which was a little tricky - I did get stuck at one stage because the game says “press key to start” and when respawn is mapped to the joystick it doesnt mention that respawn is mapped to eg JoystickButton15 in that “press ( )key to start” screen so that took a little figuring.

I was able to figure out most basics, but warping was a little tricky. At first I blasted into the side of a planet, which was entertaining to say the least.

I eventually found my way to a battle (I didnt understand the significance of all the different spawn locations at first) and managed to have some really fun dog fights. The combat effects, both audio and visual are right on point. I’m sure there are lots of little things that need tweaking but I’d have to play it a lot longer to give any input on that.

Speaking of which, will there be another weekend like this? I did record my first few flights, I will upload them soon with some commentary.

Keep up the fantastic work :slight_smile:

8 Likes
#33

After playing some more today, and seeing missiles in full force, they need to be more evadable by interceptors without boost. With guns weaker due to the hitbox changes missiles are too strong in comparison again, and with capital ships able to spam them from 12k inties should be able to reliably evade them under engine overcharge. But with the lower overcharge and boost accel that’s surprisingly difficult at the moment when large missile volleys are involved. I really feel like chaff should be way more consistent too, you dont have many so if you chaff a missile correctly it should reliably kill the missile, right now you can chaff and between two missiles from the same volley, one can miss the chaff and then come back at you for a second pass, it should only ever be one pass if you spend chaff. If you dodge manually they should still be risk of a second pass but chaff should be more reliable defeating the missile if timed right.

Missiles are comparatively a very low effort weapon system so they shouldnt scale as well as guns, but right now missiles are more effective than guns even for players with the best aim, for interceptor and bomber fights. It’s getting a bit too spammy for sure right now. And of course if a capital can wipe out any inties or bombers in a 12km radius then it kinda defeats the point of having inties and bombers. Maybe this will change with the economy change and if capitals get so expensive that they’re rare for players to use rather than the norm.

3 Likes
#34

Adding a bit of my perspective to Matt’s missile points:

I spent pretty much the entire event yesterday in a Bomber, trying to damage or at least harrass human piloted capital ships. I never felt like i was low on countermeasures, i usually ran out of missiles/torps/health way before i ran out of countermeasures. I found it relatively easy to avoid missile death by normal manouvering/moving + countermeasure spamming in hot situations. Autoturrets on corvette/destroyer were a much, much bigger threat than even a carrier opening up on me with all missiles at once. Such a salvo could be countered with just 1 countermeasure at the right time.

So Matt’s experience might differ so much cause of lower number of countermeasures stocked in inty. Or lower health, dont know. But the lower bomber manuoverability is sufficient to relieably dodge IF you pair it with countermeasures. I never tried dodging without countermeasures though.

4 Likes
#35

So here’s my feedback after some playing:

Music

Sounds quite good. I like it. Quite a bit chaotic with so many instrsuments but it might work in the whole picture. Rethinking this: Make Menu/Load/End Music stand out, make I:B more memorable I feel like you may have hit it somewhat. The main theme is a bit slow to get going but is alright. What is missing is loading music.
I thought about suggesting rather taking “Infinity_Battle_03_Demo_loop_V1” Starting at 1:10 as menu music over “Infinity_MainTheme_Mix_V2_loop”. It is much more powerful and has a memorable theme in there.
A bit of preference though. I know many action games nowadays go with more mellow music as their action kicks in rather late, Battle Royals or arena games with long set up times, the theme reminded me a lot of their menu musics. If the usual gameplay is the same it might fit. If you get into the game and 30 seconds later you are in a battle … then maybe the battle music would be better.
Loading music and winning and loosing scores, faction specific, would be cool … maybe you can nudge some of the existing music you have to have two themes … else it’s a shame that not more resources were available to give the factions their music. We have the colours, the logos, the name … music would have been also cool.

Effects

Definitely a big step up. I am really impressed. Still runs really well for me. Only had a few drops.
The impact effects are especially cool and how they are directional to the target. Looks much more immersive. Bounces are cool too.

Missiles are crazy. Smoke is crazy. How it is being lit up is really cool. The trails too. Definitely quite cool.

Explosion debris is cool too. Especially that it appears even if the ship isn’t destroyed. It seems a little bit too much during destruction though and maybe it could be a bit less spherical and more chaotic in its shape.

Not so sure about the colours of explosions. I like the variety but sometimes it feels a bit off … maybe I just need to get used to it … but maybe do a pallet check on all the colours?

Now, the warp effect. I have seen many dislike it, I like it quite a bit. A big thing I am missing though: Entry and exit visualisation. You can see the ship suddenly stop or accelerate, you can hear it, but not visual effect. It’s missing. There really should be one. Maybe a tight white ring arround the warp effect flashing for half a second as the warp kicks in. I like the fade in and fade out of the current warp effect. I also really like the “spikes” and the lights. The colour also is a bit weird … I think it doesn’t fit with the hud colours and that’s why I am confused by it. It could also use some heterogenity, the cockipt reflections are there and changing and good … but you can’t see these patterns when looking at the effect itself. Would be cool if it had some more structure visible when directly looking at it.
I also really like that it’s not just client side and how it bends.

Thruster effects look cool too. The interceptor one is a bit low poly though, visible in third person.

Shooting Turrets

I just did a test of that with RepK.
Shots go right trough turrets and that looks a bit weird when the hit effects happen below the turret. Smaller turrets are quite alright and easy to destroy … but mostly require you to suicide yourself anyway because you are so close up. It’s cool but not sure about the viability currently. Spamming torpedoes and just outright killind the cap ship seems much better when it comes to used time.
If they were easy to kill in a strafe run and only up close … that would be more attractive … would give smaller ships more options to combat the big ones.

Shots just go straight trough the turret. Hard to guess if you hit it. I may have destroyed a MK7 turret but it seems for that one the smoke wasn’t correct … maybe it wasn’t yet destroyed though. Smaller turrets were quite obvious. A longer fire would help to have a better confirmation.
The really small turrets that make it hard to stay close due to them murdering you are the hardest to see and kill. I wished for a lock on feature there.

Tested with Bomber. Weakend shealds to 60-40% and then shotgunned. Medium turrets took about 5-10 shots.

Misc

  • Great. No more errors in the profile editor. :smiley:
  • Neutral station does not resupply. (Maybe conscious)
  • Would be cool to have an indication to when Missiles are ready to fire again. Guessing is kind of super sub optimal. Nothing changes from the time the missiles are on cooldown to the time they are ready to fire again. We have the missiles launcher indicators on the HUD now and they work quite well. Add another colour to indicate reloading.

Bugs and Annoyances from earlier versions that are still in

  • Floating turrets on ground installations.
  • Jittering ships. (Discussion on discord) Examples: here, and here.
  • Jittering input. Shots fired inconsistently.
  • Manual override in warp is sometimes less effective then “letting go” (fixed acceleration has priority over dynamic acceleration of the automatic warp), quite annoying as player has to guess when to let go.
  • Loading times for the ESC and TAB menu are a bit annoying. The tab menu is often used now and it obviously taking you out of the “game” is a bit jarring. The muffling of sound is ok but some of the game still should be visible in my opinion. Even if it’s … what’s it called, fogged, like trough a fogged glass … forgot the name of the effect.
  • All NPCs leave when battle is over, and me as a bomber does not have any more corvettes nearby to finish the installation. (Debateable if that is wanted behaviour, understandable but weird when you are there and it happens)
  • Torpedo Doppler sound is weird. At first it sounds right but just before the sounds disapears it does a weird pitch up and it sounds as if it was behind you.
  • Profile conflict creates an error and stops the loading of the game even though clicking ok still goes forward with it.
  • In capitals and warp the view shifts sideways a lot during a turn in warp. It can take more than a minute for the view to set back. This is not the case in capital control mode.

Players …

I wasn’t here during the weekend and only arrive on Monday morning. Joining in for the last bits. Fun seing new players and fighting them. It works quite well. The dynamic when two players meet in the mids of hundreds of NPCs is a bit weird, with them locking horns and duking it out, while everything else just stops, still it is fun.

What I want to talk about is this though: The hard problem of multiplayer indie games

I kind of jokingly said on discord that the patch would come an hour before the event and it seems to have been quite a technical problematic situation.

Still, even with all these problems a lot more people needed to show up. I think the peak I saw was 26. I don’t have the data (yet) but it doesn’t seem like the double or triple … I hoped for.

It’s one of the biggest concerns I have for Infinity: Battlescape and it still is there, strong as years ago.

#36

Can you elaborate on that one ? I’m not sure I understand it well. Which control scheme are you talking about ?

Other than that, good feedback. Yeah the game is still full of annoyances. Some of them are “low priority”, as in: well, they’re annoying ( they wouldn’t be annoyances otherwise :wink:) but in the grand scheme of things, there are far more important features to focus on, like the missing starmap, the ship upgrades or cleaning up the HUD.

Usually, the way I work is that I focus most of my day on the high priority task(s), and do a pass over low-priority items / low-hanging fruits when I only have 30’ or 1 hour to work, or at night because I’m exhausted and I don’t want to start another 4-hours long intense coding session. So these “low priority” items are actually being worked on, just at a lower pace than the rest. They’ll get fixed, eventually… and before the Early access launch, I certainly hope.

About networking: as mentionned on Discord, I’ll be running some tests, but I do not think we have time in the short future to keep improving on the networking ( beyond obvious bugs ).

Menu loading times: I actually implemented an .SVG cache loader ( for icons ) in this patch, but it doesn’t look like it helped much with these loading times. I do not think it’s the menu system itself which is causing the slowdowns. I’m suspecting something related to the dynamic IBL, or something that got cached based on camera position ( which is changing when you enter the menus, since rendering the star map / ship hangar etc… requires rendering from another camera’s position ). But I’ll be investigating that issue soon.

Torpedo doppler: will have to investigate. It’s possible that it’s not a bug. When exceeding the speed of sound it might cause the sound source to “lag” behind the real source. I’m not sure if there’s a way in FMOD to keep the doppler pitch but drop that lag offset.

1 Like
#37

In athmosphere a pitch ladder would help finding the optimal ascent angle when leaving a planet (better than centering the planet in rear-facing radar), and a roll indicator would be nice too.

The capital control scheme needs some tweaking to be really usable. The auto-turn is not usefull in combat IMO, but still nice otherwise. The previous “set heading and forget” was very useful though.
What we sorely need is:

  • A good indicator of current heading to change it with precision with WASD without impeding aiming, something like starshatter:
    starshatter-the-gathering-storm--20070209021107648-000
  • Ideally a camera window showing what might be in the way of the current heading.
  • No conflict between strafing and heading, i.e. strafing with CTRL-WASD doesn’t cancel the heading set with WASD.
7 Likes
#38

In direct or target mode. External view. Here are some sceenshots.


Oh … so depending how it accelerates the sound could arrive much later … huh.

Maybe it’s the ship selection and all of the types of ships having to be available … (shrug)


Some more feedback:

New Station modules look good, I like the style. They have a bit fewer nooks and crannies but they are still there, which is nice to see.
Generally the style of the game has come a long way, I was a bit worried at some point but it looks quite good now.

Some smaller things:

  • Destroyer Engines look a bit flat when ship is powered down.
  • The effect of one of the back facing manoeuvring thrusters on the right side of the Destroyers is a bit offset from the geometry it should sit in.
  • Odds and countdowns don’t update while Mission screen is open.
  • One thing I forgot in my last post. The killcam still doesn’t rewind enough. You only get to see your explosion.

One idea. I also dislike the blinking for showing that something is obstructed. I like that it is indicated though, it’s important.
So how about instead of changing colour or opacity or symbol … the Font style changes?
The font could change to italic/slanted … that would be pretty clear and obvious while not being too “I am important” like the blinking is right now and still visible as well as not difficult to do like new symbols or colours.

1 Like
#39

Hi all … bit of a lurker here…been following the evolution of this game since 2005/2006…I cant even recall what year it first started…thank god for early youtube and me searching about “infinity” back then haha

Heres a preview of it back in 2006 … they were so ahead of their time!

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OK serious Feedback Time! … Im Bryn-Daf in game and I had suffered a wee blue attack :frowning: :smiley: all the objects/planets etc in my game turned blue when I loaded it up twice **

Possible reasons? - further detective work needed
These issues both happened at high graphics setting, but first time playing on high was smooth and perfect

  • It happened the first time exactly as I scrolled through spawn points to respawn my ship - I had always picked the first one until then. - could be unrelated

My graphics card is nvidia geforce gtx 970
(I think someone with a similar card had the blue bug!?)

further to this …the graphics driver was not fully updated as I hadnt used the computer for months (might be a factor)
Possible another factor was I have 8gb ram and the high setting was really taxing it for me. My hard drive only has 10gb spare drive so on the limit of being not bunged up.

Blue visuals are known to happen in some games due to the RAM maxing out

Any thoughts? Or more queries…the blue incident also happened after reboot after a failed attempt to use windowless fullscreen.
A blue incident also occurred after my computer had gone on standby sue to a USB surge problem with a mouse. - might be unrelated

Sorry for all these maybe irrelevant and random possible factors but if others have had similar causes for the blue effect on objects…it may help piece the puzzle together!

  • the blue issue did not occur when I loaded it once with medium settings, but only once Ive done that!

Thank you! Diolch!

3 Likes
#40

I forgot what the trick was, but it’s setting something to 1 and everything else can be extreme still.

1 Like
#41
  • Capital ships auto-turn is now a toggle ( default: space bar ). It’s disabled every time you respawn to avoid collisions with the docks

IMO the toggle is better than the version before, but I still much prefer the orginal version.
The problem right now is that we can’t just set a direction and then immediatly continue shooting etc. because we have to hold the desired direction until it is achieved. Another issue is that with the toggle enabled you have to keep in mind all the time if it is active, I rather have it like before when it was just intuitive and there was no reason to keep track of it.

5 Likes
#42

So we are either turning, or aiming? I assume turning can still be done manually with keys while the toggle is off. I can see how this is a better solution than the previous version…

… but I still prefer the idea of a single button press to set a heading, which the ship automatically turns to. Capital ships would have a flight crew and you (the captain) say a bearing and they just get on with it. It means you can carry on with the important business of tactically demolishing things with minimal interruption.

Elsewhere, I really don’t like the spherical radar in the centre of the HUD. Is there a way to get rid of it? I don’t even look at it, as I find the front/rear displays much more useful for orientation - plus they are up high out of the way.

#43

There’s a dropdown menu specifically for that in the launcher. You can achieve exactly what you want.

1 Like