I-Novae: Engine Screenshot Thread!

[Crayfish]

Yeah, in terms of polycount it’s an old model. I’ve been experimenting with level of detail recently and it looks like we can easily pull of an order of magnitude more polygons and still run well. But remember that we’re going to have to display hundreds of ships on screen. They can’t each have millions, you have to stay within a realistic budget.

To add to that there’s also a very large development overhead in having ships with more polygons. Even using the flawed rule of thumb that doubling the poly count will double the development time, a ship that would cost $25,000 to develop before now costs $50,000. In reality it could be even worse than that.

There seems to be two types of gamer (and game developer), those who prioritise gameplay over graphics and those that prioritise graphics over gameplay*. I fall more in to the former category and would happiliy sacrifice 50% of the polygons on each ship in order to have the extra gameplay potential of twice as many ships in a scene at one time. Neither camp is entirely correct and it’s all about balance and knowing what you can realistically achieve.

• There is a third type but I’m leaving audio out of the scope of this discussion.

[JB47394]

I agree with Crayfish. People should stop comparing us to AAA games that have entire companies and millions of dollars of budget behind them. There’s no way we are going to compete with them, even if we get funding from KS.

I think you misunderstand how this works. If we compare you to AAA game companies, it’s because you set things up that way. We’re just the consumers of your screen shots, blogs, videos and other published works. The net result of having consumed that stuff is that we have high expectations; you’ve been publishing AAA stuff.

If you presented more stuff that wasn’t AAA quality, then our expectations would be adjusted. Instead, you talk about doing things that AAA studios don’t do. Hundreds of twitch-controlled ships in a single fight. Seamless travel through planetary systems. And so on. You’re trying to build hype, and you’ve done such a good job that expectations are through the roof.

Keith did a good job of responding to my comments about lighting. I said “This is a weakness.” He said “It could be addressed, but there are limits to what we can do, so it won’t be addressed.” Perfect. Enough said. Do that more often and expectations will be reset.

What I see looks really good and is certainly “good enough”.

The problem with the second shot (for me) is that there is a disconnect in presentation. The environment is crisp and clean while the ship (or ship texturing) is not. That ship doesn’t belong in that scene. Having all the visuals on the same page is important.

It may be nothing at all, because the Hellion seems to be a kind of second tier model, and it’s used in a close up. If an appropriate balance can be found between polygon counts and texture quality, my brain won’t look at a scene in the Kickstarter and say “That looks wrong”.

To be clear, I’m not calling for AAA ships in a AAA setting. I’m calling for a match in all the visuals. That covers the environment, the mechanicals, the UI - everything. The entire game needs to follow one aesthetic style, and the ship on the planet surface seems to be a break from the other stuff that Hutchings has posted here.

I also happen to place a much greater emphasis on gameplay than visuals, so I’m constantly dismayed that 99% of discussions revolve around the visuals. But when visuals are presented, I discuss visuals. Give me half a chance to discuss gameplay and I’ll talk about that. For years. Just like we used to.

[INovaeKeith]

I think you misunderstand how this works. If we compare you to AAA game companies, it’s because you set things up that way. We’re just the consumers of your screen shots, blogs, videos and other published works. The net result of having consumed that stuff is that we have high expectations; you’ve been publishing AAA stuff.

We have actually realized this may become a bit of a problem for us. We’re not quite good enough to be AAA but we’re leagues ahead of anything else in the indie space. So far this has manifested with people associating us (visually) with AAA so we’re actively figuring out how we should manage expectations in that regard.

[SpaceDonki]

Just hire luther, he seems like a good expectation manager:

[Kreydis]

I came for screen shots. I got 12 posts of explaining why they could be better and budget talks.

[INovaeGene]

I came for screen shots. I got 12 posts of explaining why they could be better and budget talks.

That’s what happens when ppl nitpick

[ThornEel]

To be clear, I’m not calling for AAA ships in a AAA setting. I’m calling for a match in all the visuals. That covers the environment, the mechanicals, the UI - everything. The entire game needs to follow one aesthetic style, and the ship on the planet surface seems to be a break from the other stuff that Hutchings has posted here.

This evokes memories of Ground Control 2 to me. Infantry models were well-detailed (particularly for its time), but the ground they were standing on, not so much. It was indeed quite jarring when zooming in.

We have actually realized this may become a bit of a problem for us. We’re not quite good enough to be AAA but we’re leagues ahead of anything else in the indie space. So far this has manifested with people associating us (visually) with AAA so we’re actively figuring out how we should manage expectations in that regard.

I’ve heard that such ‘medium’ games (AA? A?) are in the toughest spot because of this.
Maybe going up front and say “We are not AAA. Actually, our all-stretch-goals budget fit within their margin error. We’re not trying to make an AAA game there. However, we are taking a direction no AAA game is doing, and few fellow medium projects are even straying close to.”
Or maybe not, I don’t know.

Ideally, you could test it on unsuspecting pedestrians and test their reaction.
Maybe you should show your video pitch/script on (gasp horror!) focus groups?
Sure, it ruined more Hollywood movies than Shia Laboeuf and Roland Emmerich combined, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea!

[JB47394]

That’s what happens when ppl nitpick

That’s what happens when fan interactions are mismanaged. Calling feedback ‘nitpicking’ is the first nail in the coffin of customer relations - smiley or no.

Or maybe not, I don’t know.

I was going to say earlier to avoid such statements. If your company is being compared to General Electric, you don’t say “We’re not General Electric, but…”. The immediate reaction for people is to think of General Electric as soon as they think of the company. The continuing comparison will be that much more difficult to shake. Create your own place in the mind of the customers so that they think of what Infinity:Battlescape is when they hear “Infinity:Battlescape”. You don’t want them thinking “Oh, right. That’s the game that’s not a AAA game.”

I know that you’re not suggesting that the entire campaign hinge on the idea that they’re not a AAA game company, but it really shouldn’t come up. They should say what they are doing, and do it such that it doesn’t evoke any ambitions of AAA products. It’s the same rationale of avoiding mention of an MMO; including such mentions doesn’t help to define Infinity:Battlescape. If people are confused enough to ask if “Infinity:Battlescape” is an MMO, then the message didn’t do its job.

[INovaeGene]

That’s what happens when fan interactions are mismanaged. Calling feedback ‘nitpicking’ is the first nail in the coffin of customer relations - smiley or no.

Feedback can most definitely be nitpicking, I’ve done it myself many times. I’ll add two smiley’s

[JB47394]

Feedback can most definitely be nitpicking

Yes, it can be. The point is that you don’t call it nitpicking in a public forum anymore than you call an imbecile an imbecile. The person may be an imbecile, but a company representative doesn’t use that word in a public forum.

[Kreydis]

a company representative doesn’t use that word in a public forum.

And this is why the world is ass backwards.

[cybercritic]

Yes, it can be. The point is that you don’t call it nitpicking in a public forum anymore than you call an imbecile an imbecile. The person may be an imbecile, but a company representative doesn’t use that word in a public forum.

Haha.

Thank you for that one @JB47394, had a nice laugh.

[INovaeGene]

And this is why the world is ass backwards

Well I hope you like the screenshots anyways!

[Arkenbrien]

…nitpicking…

Is this nitpicking about nitpicking about nitpicking?

[INovaeHutchings]

Me, whenever a screenshot generates discussion or controversy.

[Kreydis]

@INovaeGene

Well I hope you like the screenshots anyways!

@INovaeGene I do, I really do.

[quote=“Hutchings, post:897, topic:582, full:true”]
Me, whenever a screenshot generates discussion or controversy.
[/quote]

And this is why we have nice things. Because @Hutchings matches my wavelength of crazy, even though it’s somehow twenty octaves higher then where I stand.

[Japa]

So, about those screenshots, anyway?

[lolsparta4]

Tomorrow. (More to satisfy the forum)

[Tjafaas]

Damn @Hutchings that’s machiavelic! Are you the one behind all this, wispering in the ears of @INovaeGene and @JB47394 ?

Oh, right, you let the screenshot do the wispering for you ^^

My 2 cents about all the previous posts regarding comparison.
Wherever you like it or not, Battlescape is going to be compared to SC and ED. Simply because the similar other games are far and few betweens.

What have you got there ?

• Star conflict ? Meh, a simple space arena shooter.
• Open Space ? Single player RTS, similar to Homeworld
• Starpoint Gemini ? Again, singleplayer RPG.
• Eve Online ? Waiting to be renewed I guess …

None of the games in the list above offer Battlescape’s strengths.

Best way to go is to be honest, present the good stuff you’ve got, but gently remind of your company status. Well, I guess you certainly have your own plan. Palpatine is leading you

[Voidskipper]

I think the problem is people are now super concerned with graphics for some reason. So they say things that can be seen as nitpicking, which tbh, it is. As I said before I just want a game that works well and is fun to play. Inovae isn’t trying to bill itself as the Ferrari of graphics people. They are trying trying to bill themselves as the Ferrari of gameplay and what is possible in the game.

Also, some of you guys need to go take a walk outside or something lol. When I come here there are always people saying some pretty silly things.