Why bother when people want stuff for free.
See what you two have done, I hope youâre proud of you now!
âŚmind if I bring some marshmallows? Those are nice flames.
As I said(not clearly enough, apparently), I donât think piracy is harmless. Its just less harmful than theft, and therefore calling piracy theft is an exaggeration. The words donât mean the same, so piracy ISâNT theft. Fraud is actually a much more accurate way of describing piracy than theft. And comparing it to actual ship stealing raiding pirates makes no sense. It just doesnt.
Flames are a good thing when a place is cold and boring. And when topics are already leading nowhere good.
[quote=âBentware, post:82, topic:205â]
Donât bother making anything. Why spend years designing anything. [/quote]
Never said piracy was âokayâ so I donât know where this is coming from.
http://www.ted.com/talks/rob_reid_the_8_billion_ipod.html
Unfortunately the medium of the internet makes it difficult for people to perceive subtle distinctions like this.
If you want to get your legal terminology precise, it would not be fraud and it is also not larceny. It is copyright infringement, the idea of which is written into the first article of The Constitution in the United States of America, this is to say, it was written as law before laws protecting free speech, the right to fair trial, and the right for women to vote. Copyright infringement is the violation of the rights of the creator of intellectual property to control the creation and dissemination of copies of that property. The purpose of this law is to ensure that a creator of intellectual property can financially support themselves off of their creations. So in other words, my simple and often linked picture is precisely accurate.
Pirates are pirates. Or if you donât like the word because of itâs other meanings then- copyright infringers are copyright infringers who are infringing copyright. Different from fraud, and different from larceny. It is itâs own thing with itâs own punishments under the law and itâs own effects socially and economically.
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[quote=âBentware, post:83, topic:205â]
Why bother when people want stuff for free.[/quote]
Honestly, who doesnât? Donât drag me into you guysâ piracy/theft mess though. Removing that from the equation⌠because who knows, there could be 33m worth of interest out there and/or simply the hope for something new & refreshing etc.
You do realize that the engine he made for Doom was since licensed to a number of other games, right? None of them quite as well-known as Doom.
I really wish I could find a quote for Janus Friis saying that spending a few years on a free peer-to-peer voice program is a bad idea, as it would fit right in.
Simple: they try to push whatâs possible.
Infinity wont rival SC and ED, itâll show them what can be done. What shouldâve been done with those kinds of budgets. Or itâll fail completely and Iâll end up with dozens of hours of free entertainment and a better understanding of Relativity thanks to these and the old forums.
Either way, I win.
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[quote=âSaturday, post:86, topic:205â]If you want to get your legal terminology precise, it would not be fraud and it is also not larceny. It is copyright infringement, the idea of which is written into the first article of The Constitution in the United States of America, this is to say, it was written as law before laws protecting free speech, the right to fair trial, and the right for women to vote. Copyright infringement is the violation of the rights of the creator of intellectual property to control the creation and dissemination of copies of that property. The purpose of this law is to ensure that a creator of intellectual property can financially support themselves off of their creations. So in other words, my simple and often linked picture is precisely accurate.
Pirates are pirates. Or if you donât like the word because of itâs other meanings then- copyright infringers are copyright infringers who are infringing copyright. Different from fraud, and different from larceny. It is itâs own thing with itâs own punishments under the law and itâs own effects socially and economically.
[/quote]
Pretty solid post. In other news, let us either move the likely to continue debate, about the morals and legalities of piracy (copyright infringement) somewhere else; or just leave it at this.
âTaking the fruit of someoneâs labors without compensation is rude.â
In the same way that stealing someoneâs car is ârudeâ, yeah.
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Yes, it is rude in both cases. Now please drop the subject. Itâs gone on plenty enough, and either way theyâre both illegal to do.
First in in the interests of disclosure I followed this project with baited breath for many years, however when Star Citizen came out I threw my wallet at the screen, hell they knocked about 3.15k usd out of me over a year lol, CR is a master marketer thats for sure, I also spent about ÂŁ100 on Elite:Dangerous during its kickstarter.
Now everyone is comparing infinity to the wrong game, Star Citizen and infinity are two totally different approaches Star Citizen is a carefully crafted game of some 150 systems or so at launch, Infinity uses procedural generation for the appearance of infinite explorable space.
Elite Dangerous, does the same thing, however at this stage its only procedurally generating star systems and stars, nt planets themselves, however this is subject to change as ED folks improve in future, yes bugger you lot concerning yourselves over star citizen its Elite Dangerous that is actually riding your coat-heels.
However Battlefield and Call of Duty co-existed for years along with many others in the same genre, theres room for all of them, long as yours is fun set in its own story world and worth it.
Now, you have to bear in mind Star Citizen has by now hundreds of thousand of backers, who are emotionally invested in the success of the game thanks to throwing their wallets at the screen in response to one or more star citizen videos, as a result only an utter fool would attempt to do anything against Star Citizen peeps at this time, Chris roberts could break into your house, stick a star citizen sticker to your monitor, shit on your keyboard, and post a selfie doing it, and everyone would feel sorry for chris Roberts not you if you complained about it.
Welcome to the Real World, as a result it is monumentally daft to accuse them of anything even if its true it doesnt matter, all it does is make the accusing party look petty afterall its not a big publisher your accusing, theres little of the traditional hate there to go after, so yeah learn some social skills, no way youâll earn a cent of KS like that, your delibertly sabotaging your own chances of having a kickstarter by sowing doubt in the very people that would likely be the bigger group of your supporters as the vast majority of people willing to donate to your kickstarter have already in some way or other got themselves a Star Citizen account, the last thing you want is for the first thing they hear of your company is you whining that a search for your game leads to a star citizen members forum signature and youâve accused SC of stealing your shit because of it, tbh it makes you look like kindergarden kid throwing a tantrum for not getting your way, its the kind of thing a no good blood sucking lawyer cares about, not a person looking to win them some popular suppport for their game.
So quit with the rage spree against people who you can do nothing to, and focus on yourself and try to salvage your tattered reputation before its to late, apologise now, dont just hide, and ignore it, because my brief summary of forum activity auto e-mail just pointed me to it, and I thought wtf, and I been following infinity for a long time.
You know another thing thatâs rude? Your response here. I suggest you learn some respect for other forum members.
[quote=âXanderxavier, post:92, topic:205â]
as a result only an utter fool would attempt to do anything against Star Citizen peeps at this time, âŚ
⌠as a result it is monumentally daft to accuse them of anything even if its true it doesnt matter, all it does is make the accusing party look petty ⌠no way youâll earn a cent of KS like that, your delibertly sabotaging your own chances of having a kickstarter by sowing doubt in the very people that would likely be the bigger group of your supporters as the vast majority of people willing to donate to your kickstarter have already in some way or other got themselves a Star Citizen account, the last thing you want is for the first thing they hear of your company is you whining that a search for your game leads to a star citizen members forum signature and youâve accused SC of stealing your shit because of it, tbh it makes you look like kindergarden kid throwing a tantrum for not getting your way, its the kind of thing a no good blood sucking lawyer cares about, not a person looking to win them some popular suppport for their game.[/quote]
While you could learn to break-up your post with full-stops & paragraphs 
, I think what you say makes a lot of sense. If people find bad stuff associated with Infinity ('s forums), that tends to just make Infinity look bad. It wonât stop people being crazy about Star Citizen, but it might drive them away from Infinity.
I personally think Star Citizen is over-hyped, and suspect it is going to end-up disappointing a lot of peopleâs (overly inflated) expectations all by itself. Theyâve already delayed release of the âcombat moduleâ by a couple of months. No need to try damaging it yourself, even if you could (which you canât).
[quote=âINovaeFlavien, post:72, topic:205â]
I said there was some uncertainity about how and when E:D would add seamless procedural planets to their game.[/quote]
Frontier have always been quite definite about when & how they hope to add seamless procedural planets to E: D, so your contradicting their statements (by claiming there is uncertainty where there isnât) just makes you look malicious. Really, I would cut your losses, stop bad-mouthing other projects, and instead concentrate on promoting your own (which you can do without saying bad things about competitors - itâs just not so easy).
I understand why you think it will take them longer than they say, and you may even be right. But at the moment this is purely your speculation, and anyone not familiar with your expertise (which makes 99% of the people your Kickstarter will be aimed at) can easily construe what you say as having bad intentions.
At the very least, everyone should agree that you are biased (since your own project is competing with E: D to an extent), and therefore most people are hardly going to take your word for it, so why bother? It just risks making you look bad, and upsetting the developers of those games. (If you have concerns about those projects, then you should tell those developers privately, or not at all.)
Thatâs exactly the problem: The things you say can EASILY be interpreted in a way which puts you in a very bad light. Itâs not a question of right or wrong, because that cannot be proved for another 1.5 to 2 years (by which time your Kickstarter will be long gone), so until that time you are merely making unprovable accusations that tend to make you look bad.
.
Feel free to not reply to the following, since it risks you doing exactly the things I am asking you not to do. I am just trying to show why people may easily come to different conclusions than you, and thus could easily suspect your contradictory claims are biased/malicious:
So what? There are OTHER projects (such as No Manâs Sky & Pioneer) which have already implemented seamless planetary landings (even if they may not be multiplayer, but I donât see that being particularly relevant).
Youâre basically saying that the guy who INVENTED seamless planetary landings in 1993 (David Braben), and is still involved in making modern games, doesnât understand the difficulty of doing seamless planetary landings in 2013. I find that a little difficult to believe. More likely he doesnât feel the need to meet your own personal standards (e.g. physically correct atmospheric scattering), and also he has a mature proven game engine (Cobra) & an experienced team to help achieve it.
Itâs even possible that Frontier already has a prototype implementation of seamless planetary landings. At the very least they DID show a video of flying through procedural clouds in a simulated atmosphere, something which probably wonât be needed in the initial release of E: D⌠so it seems entirely possible they have other unreleased prototypes too.
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Giving up your IRL job to work exclusively on your passion can be risky and stress generating. If it was me I would keep my project open source, and rely on the community to enrich the game design, engine, and content. I would ensure that it is highly scriptable/moddable, and that it could be used as a game development framework. I would think âcommunityâ rather than âmy babyâ and this would probably generate in long term hundreds of little clones that I could call âmy babiesâ.
Of course this is only my own point of view.
Rude⌠Ua-hua, are you sure your adolescent eyes are correctly dictating to your mind what was actually typed? Because what I just typed right now is rude. And in the quoted sentence I did say âPleaseâ.
Not to mention the fact that youâre purposely dragging out a silly conversation, and now youâre being overly sensitive about whatever just happened. So, heed your own advice.
Pots and kettles, it would seem.
I agree with @Xanderxavier. Complaining about anything that relates to Elite: Dangerous or Star Citizen wonât help I:B at all. If there is a problem, just secretly contact the developer of those games and try to get the problem sorted without resorting to whining for everyone to see.
In fact, I think that all devs should just stop giving their opinions about other space games until the kickstarter ends. No matter how harmless the comment might seem to the poster, you just simply can never know how something will be received by the public.
If anybody asks in a interview, just say that these are different games trying different things, that you hope they succeed, and thatâs it.
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That makes me sad.
I donât like it when words become weapons.
Especially when oppinons of different people are turned arround and used as a weapon.
And now Iâm confusedâŚ
Iâm a big fan of open source. Makes some great tools. Somewhat doubtful of game-making capabilities, though. Especially concerned about balancing, asset quality, oh yeah and publicity. Not much fun in an MMO if only a few hundred people have ever heard of it, and theyâre spread between 17 different branches depending on whether they want their preferred playstyle to produce overpowered results. Also, I like pretty graphics.
As for the piracy discussion:
Yes, piracy is illegal. Funny thing about the law, though, is that is specifically states that you can do whatever you want so long as you donât get caught. I believe the exact terminology is something like âinnocent until proven guiltyâ. Proving someone guilty of piracy might not be difficult, but it isnât cheap either, so donât count on the law catching any large number of pirates.
Are you making a product that you feel might be at risk of piracy, and want to minimize said risk? Then figure out a way to make the un-pirated product better. I have no moral qualms about pirating games - or music, or movies - but I very rarely do so because of Steam, Pandora, and Netflix simply being far more convenient than any torrent tracker Iâve found so far. I would never pirate an MMO, because frankly if that didnât block me from accessing the official servers chances are theyâd be filled with cheaters.
You, or people like you, have been trying to make people stop pirating stuff for years. How 'bout trying to make them start buying it instead?
@Kreydis Please go commit acts of questionable morality to your relatives, pets, random farm stock, and yourself. I said âpleaseâ, how could this paragraph possibly be rude?