I had the same issue the other day when trying to @ flavien…
As others have said it’s not too big of a deal for me to wait an extra month. My semester has started and either way I managed to pick up an internship so I will be busy to say the least.
Having said that that was awfully kind of them to coincide the release with when I get responses from grad school if I’m accepted or not…
The :eye_twitch: suspense is :eye_twitch: killing me.
Edit: Spelling and grammar and stuff…is early and I need more
Make that anywhere form a month to a year for me. Toaster top needs to be upgraded and transformed before I can even think of playing any games past 10 FPS that’ve been made in the last 6 years.
As long as blindness does not come along with faith Supporting doesn’t mean having no criticism, but rather “coat the arrow of truth with honey”, as some might say.
I’m alright with INovae delaying dev access as long as there’s a good reason and they communicate on it.
If they’re serious about having some kind of indenpendence from Steam and being able to launch the game without Steam, then this work is not wasted.
About the authentication, I’d rather advocate to get the minimal foundations done, but if a simple text file as @cybercritic suggests is sufficent for security (and I mean both user and code security), then perhaps it’s OK.
Sorry, but we’re not rushing any of these systems. They are critically important, because our entire server infrastructure, databases and authentication are based on it. It’s the foundation for our company infrastructure. More specifically, this is what we’ve been doing for the last 2 months:
server authentication (players will be able to host their own dedicated servers in the future, it has to be secure)
client authentication
access rights verification (who has access to the prototype/game)
security/encryption of requests and tokens
automatic bug and crash reporting
sessions logging (both for client and server)
kickstarter database importing
indiegogo database polling and importing (because people can keep pledging)
rewards claiming / matching databases (lots of people used a different email to pledge)
versionning and patching ( full or incremental, nobody wants to download a 4 GB patch for every single minor update )
stats, error logs and backups
available servers list displayed in the launcher
connection limitations / logging queue
launcher, account management
performance and ability to scaling up
and probably a lot of other things I’m forgetting
From this list, the 4 major points are:
automatic patching + versionning
authentication + verifying access rights
merging all the data from external sources into our own database
security
We aren’t going to compromise on any of these. It is virtually guaranteed that the Dev access release will be full of game-related problems and vulnerabilities. Rushing this right now could turn out for the worse later, and this is something we have to do down the line anyways.
It’s good that we have a clearer understanding of the work you have been doing. I think you’re right to stick on those 4 major points I guess I still have questions about how much you could compromise on to ensure the dev access goes out, but I’m sure you guys will figure it out. It’s just the better informed we are of what’s going on, the more difficult it is for us to be annoyed at the time it’s taking
The ironic part is that developer access has never held a hard date. Not only has that tier been advertised as an estimation on Kickstarter rewards, but vocally in videos “sometime in January, roughly”.
Admittedly, I too was thinking all along that in January I’d be playing Infinity. With that said, I figured there was a 50% chance we wouldn’t see it in the month of January. Better yet, I think most figured that, but whether we wanted to admit it beforehand is a different story.
I have been through rushed releases and through delayed releases of games/in development games before. Ill take a delayed release over a rushed one each time every time.
I was really looking forward to messing about in the prototype.
Exploring the system and engaging in combat is gonna be such a blast, I have been counting the days in anticipation so when the 31st struck midnight I confess I was gutted.
Having slept on it though, I guess it was inevitable. The lack of any real news this past week was a worry to me. I don’t expect to know what the Devs are having for breakfast but some word on what they were working on just helps to alleviate concerns and manage expectations.
I do hope they consider this in future.
Anyway, good luck finishing off the required work INS, hope things go smoother for you in February.
@jojo86 Thanks ! Finally !!! I really dislike how everybody reacted … I thought that this community would be more comprehensive (a community with a lot of devs !). You know how deadlines are a stupid thing. Asking to a dev to say when a feature coukd be released is like asking to a doctor how many time you can hope to live… they have metrics ans stats to give an answer, but then the unknownable reality will give them the right answer…
Personnally, as a C++ developper (I know what I’m talking about), I think the only good way to help people understand is to “overcomunicate” (total transparency (alpha 255 xD))… tell them what you know when you know it, to help them see how things happened (I think that only star citizen used this strategy)… you, the team, understand why because you know what happens in live, share a lot and immediatly, make the comminuty your “journal intime” and people will (with time) understand. This will put off every release date by months but it eliminates interferences…
Now I can say that this community is like any other community, really selfish… I opened this thread to support the team, you guys know that they are risking their jobs, life (socially speaking) for this project, you just give a little money and you are now like stupid consumers waiting for what you were really interested on, something in return… That is not cool ! I helped them because they are taking risks to make a dream alive, I’m nit waiting for anything. Do the same !!! You will not be disapointed …
I only reply here because I hate to hear people claiming to be experts about how something cannot be done.
Those who say it can’t be done are usually interrupted by others doing it.
—James A. Baldwin
You don’t know what you’re talking about, and I know this because I know how to accurately schedule software development. In fact, there are whole companies that know how to do it. It’s made possible by knowing what product you want to build and by knowing how you want to build it. Most small shops know neither, so employees get the sensation that the company is just thrashing about in a sea of code, hoping to assemble something that they can sell to someone.
Sadly, Flavien shares your belief, likening scheduling to “more art of divination than engineering”.
The simple solution:
Know the functionality of your product in detail
Know the design of your product in detail
Know the implementation of your product in detail.
The implementation stage consists of tasks no longer than three days. Not “a couple weeks” or “the month of July”, but three days. That’s the longest. The shortest would be a half day. If an engineer goes through and does that, they’ll be looking so hard at what they’re going to do that they’ll really, truly know how long it’s going to take to build the darned thing.
One reason that engineers are so scared of going through this process is because it’s so humbling. What seems on instinct like a two week problem turns into two months of actual work. Edit: Oh, the scary part is trying to approach management with a two month estimate when pretty much everyone is assuming that it will take two weeks. The developer feels like a fool handing in a two month estimate, despite having real numbers to show. At Microsoft, our development manager had to really beat on this point to make sure that the engineers would be honest in their schedule estimates.
As for supporting the team, I doubt there’s much to be said. They’re sincerely working their best to build the product and to meet the goals that they’ve set. I know they’ll do their best to get the job done, but I also know that every date they mention is more of a guideline than anything else. Personally, I just want to know the order that things will be happening. I don’t care about the dates.
If they run out of money before delivering, well, that’s a different problem to sort out.
The only issue I have is lack of updates. When it was stated a while back that it would be end of Jan, and then we hear nothing until Feb 1st that it will be by end of Feb. If in the middle of Jan or at least by the 1 week deadline this same update was made I think you would have received a lot less flak. The issue is waiting for the deadline when you knew before that you wouldn’t make it. Outcome wouldn’t have changed, but at least it wouldn’t seem to everyone that the delays are being hidden.
I agree with your sentiments, particularly about being more concerned about what is being developed rather than how long it’s going to take.
Some devs (Subnautica is an exmple here) have taken this to an excessive level and if they’re using tools like Trello they’ve made them accessible to the public so that everyone knows what’s being worked on and what’s done, but not necessarily how long it’s going to take.
I apologise for some of my frustrations, but one of my pet hates in software development right now is overengineering. One project I’ve been working on at work had one developer spend six months farting around on a fucking checkout page making completely unnecessary tweaks, which resulted in something that looks relatively nice but functions poorly. I probably shouldn’t even be talking openly about it tbh, but it’s easily one of the most frustrating events in my professional career to date.
Though I should point out I’m not suggesting this is what is happening at INS, because that was a completely different scenario. It just puts me on edge about stuff that doesn’t seem to be strictly necessary to achieve a functioning product
Wow, Wow…Wow…slow down there Tex. I have gone over the thread and found most if not all the threads understanding and supportive. As for your concern about the team risking their jobs and life for this project, what about those who put their hard earned money into the project?! Sorry but I’m not supporting a social welfare program - I’m supporting a business that will supply a product. In fact, the sooner the team realizes they are a business the better off they will be financially.
Which brings me to the other issues other members have brought up: they are all valid concerns! What’s more, how can we perform our roles supporting DEVs if we are not honest. Sure we could ingratiate ourselves to the Team but we would only create a culture of complacency that is now the hallmark of SC - and we know how that has turned out.
Personally I would have been more than happy to get bugged up release than no release at all because it represents forward momentum. But I understand the Team’s concern about putting anything out that could be a problem down the road. As for Steam, I would rather I-Novae not be bound to Steam even if it means more time to put their ducks in a row: independence is a wonderful thing. But I would have appreciated more info from the DEVs instead of leaving updates to the last second - a few days advance warning goes a long way in not only alleviating our concerns about the game’s development but also shows the DEVs are organized and thinking ahead. That said, I’m disappointed but support the Team’s decision to hold off a month.
Oh yeah Microsoft is so good at delivering something fonctional at the good date… lol
I met one of the french known leads of Microsoft France and he was pretty with the same mind than Flavien when we were talking of Rise : Son of Rome
The simple solution… I love people arriving with simple solutions… do it and shut up if it is simple. The fact is that you can’t know the future and so can’t Flavien. The simple solution to give the good time for building something is to already have done it…
And I never said I was an expert… but I am xD
Can you tell me that you nerver overestimated the needed timz to be sure to release ? Do you always give the good tile needed, the orecise day ? Precise hour ?
I am exactly at the opposite of what you think (closed mind, it is not possible, etc…) but there are things that cannot be done, as to know of what tomorrow will look like.
And for the money arguments, it’s nothing… what did you give ? Do you know how many Flavien and Keith made during the past ten years ? I remember a number like 1M $… of personnal money …
This is risk, and if you are onky to obtain something, you missed the spirit of Kickstarter.
I can only agree with the lack of communication that contributed a lot to this situation…
Supporting doesn’t mean having no criticism, but rather “coat the arrow of truth with honey”, as some might say.
