The Last Jedi (Spoilers thread)

Given the threads about the previous Star Wars films, I am a bit surprised no-one has made one for Ep VIII yet. So, what did you think about this one?

(Disclaimer: I heard there are one or two controversies around this film, but for the life of me I can’t see why in it. Which is probably better that way.)

With the disappointment that was Ep VII (seriously, who let JJ Abrams ru[i]n it?), I expected this one to be mediocre at best. But surprisingly, I now think it’s one of the best so far.

First, it’s well-made in general. Visually beautiful, well-acted, well-shot, mostly well-paced… On a purely technical level, it is a success. Obviously, would we be tempted to think, given the US Military-grade money that was poured in it. But of course big-budget films don’t always work like that.

As far as the story go, it picks up all the interesting things Ep VII (unsuccessfully) attempted, and goes out of its way to make it work. From the teenage Vader wannabe and the raw natural Jedi from out of nowhere, to the Deus Ex Machina old master who decided to go in exile instead of fixing the damn galaxy and generically arrogant evil Big Bad, they are all treated as interesting things in their own rights.

I particularly liked how the roguish tactical genius super-pilot goes against his milquetoast command to Do Thing Right, and it ends up in catastrophe twice - chain of command exist for a reason, disobeying orders because you know better than your superiors tend to end very badly (historical example: Waterloo would have been won, if with difficulty, had Napoleon’s generals had actually followed his orders). And in the end, we see that he is finally wising up and may be on his way to actually become a competent leader.
The film seemed to choose several times to go against what we’d expect, but in a logical way.

Interestingly, the First Order’s army, despite its overwhelming military superiority and all its cool toys, is crippled by its incompetent high command, for the very reason totalitarian armies tend to fail: incompetent generals named by design (to avoid threatening the leader), micromanagement and rule by fear dramatically preventing initiatives (like, say, scrambling fighters when a capital ship is attacked), and of course arrogance getting them to waste much needed time or react too late to what should have been an easy to counter manoeuvre (given that it’s never used elsewhere).

And the totalitarian military dictator ruling in a fracking silk dressing gown. They wanted to be the Nazis, they are only the Fascists.
Then again, there is that one time the de facto forces of freedom escaped total destruction at the fall of the Republic, due to the aforementioned problems with high command inherent to a totalitarian army, and the sacrifice of a small group who stayed behind to cover the evacuation, which also implies a Resistance at some point, and which also implied a well-made (if historically phony) big-budget film.

On the other hand, several people told me “Meh, it’s nothing more than Ep V bis”…


I didn’t like it at all. I was kinda hoping to see a continuity of the themes established in Ep. 7 (although I wouldn’t rate that one too high either as it was just basically New Hope II) but it seemed like this episode did it’s best to ignore absolutely everything established in the previous episode.

Things I didn’t like:

  1. Snoke’s death came far too quickly. Huge potential lost imo. Plus why hype the character so much if they just waste him?
  2. Completely wasted the potential in Luke imo. And what was that thing with the missing map pieces in Ep. 7 if Luke was just a depressed old man who wanted to be left alone?
  3. Light speed mechanics were f*cked up. Think about the implications of weaponized light speed in this universe! And also that awful chase plot because apparently you can’t just jump ahead of the fuel depleted rebel fleet but somehow you are perfectly able to intercept a fleet mid jumping in Rogue One.
  4. The communist propaganda side quest at the casino… Oh and save the animals but leave the kids behind.
  5. Phasma died too quickly (although so did Boba Fett in Ep. 6 so maybe it’s a tradition…). Potential lost imo.
  6. Rey was still perfect in everything she does because muh strong female role models.
  7. The Force has transformed into Disney Magic™ that everyone can master if they just believe in themselves! Seriously. The Force should be HARD to master. Now you can just do it in your first try and beat Jedis who have been training for all their lives (+ the elite guards too). Now even that kid in the end could just use the Force to grab the broom with 0 training… I was kinda expecting to find out that Rey was somehow trained in her youth (and forgot it due to traumatic experiences) to explain her mastery of the Force but apparently she was just a nobody, which means there is no explanation…
  8. Force ghosts can now apparently use lightning. (“Use the Force Luke! No wait… actually just stand back!”)
  9. Porgs.
  10. The remaining villains. Now that Snoke is dead there are only incompetent, uninteresting, immature and useless villains left. Supreme Leader Emo is not a villain that will make Ep. 9 interesting imo.
  11. I really hated that Holdo character. She was like an archetype SJW. Obviously only there to make a political point.
  12. They should have killed Leia. The only one of the old characters who should have been killed (due to what we know happened irl) was Leia, and she had to be the only one of them who survived, And what a cringy way for that to happen…
  13. The entire f*** the past -theme. I seriously hate it. I want to see the good things of the past preserved. I wanted to see an optimistic Luke and not that self loathing depressed old guy (although very well performed). I wanted to see the old characters through the new trilogy and not see them killed off to make room for the new characters that I seriously don’t care that much about. I’ve never been a “True Star Wars Fan” tbh, but I really felt like this movie was in many ways a FU to the old fans and a rude way to thank them for their years of support and their energy that has kept the franchise going, only to make it “more suitable for a new younger audience”. I left the theater with the feeling that Star Wars as I knew it has become something else. Something that even the prequels couldn’t do to me. I’m seriously considering not to go and see Ep. 9. At least not in the theaters.

What I liked:

  1. The movie was visually good looking as you would expect from a high budget movie like this.
  2. Although I did find the kamikaze lightspeed attack to be highly problematic it still looked pretty cool.
  3. Snoke. As long as it lasted.
  4. The fight scene with the elite guard (although not believable on Rey’s part) was very nice. Although I was too shocked from Snoke’s premature death to fully enjoy the choreography.

All in all I would give this movie 4 out of 10.


This. So many things in the movie were just plain dumb; not only did the plot fall apart into a million pieces because of this, but it also brought down half the universe with it. I know that the Star Wars was never really trying to be realistic, but it had something holding the world together. For this one, I couldn’t maintain suspension of disbelief even with the pretty visuals and score.


I liked it way more than TFA, which largely frustrates me. It’s not that it was echoing EP.IV (I didn’t mind that), it was that it somehow mostly lacked the Star Wars spirit - except for some moments. But most of all, the tons of plot threads left open left me unsatisfied at the end. It’s okay to have a couple of hooks, but there was too much.

This brings me to The Last Jedi.
Mr Johnson threw out most of the plot lines established in TFA. Because of my frustration with them, I see this as a good thing! If he’d tried to follow them, there was a danger of it becoming predictable and cramped. Instead, the story was fairly streamlined and unpredictable, which I liked. And it was packed full as well. The story seemed to be winding up and I suddenly remembered I still hadn’t seen the big battle on the trailer!

Yes Snoke wasn’t developed much. However, the more I think about it, the more I wonder if it was misdirection. We thought they were mirroring Vader/Emperor, but that has now changed by eliminating the Emperor figure.
And as for Kylo, I have really grown to like his character. He’s masterfully acted by Adam Driver and the writing of his character for TLJ excellently played the “will he, won’t he” for most of the way through. Unfortunately, Rey is kind of two-dimensional in comparison.

Luke I liked. It seems that old Jedi have a habit of turning into crazy/grumpy old hermits! He played it perfectly and still managed to have a heroic finish. And seeing Luke/Yoda and Luke/R2D2 gave me the warm fuzzies!

Yes, I agree that lightspeed stuff is the one thing that is massively annoying me in the rebooted canon.

  • TFA - Han just going immediately to lightspeed inside the hangar (completely contradicts the ANH escaping Tatooine sequence). And as for flying through that shield…

  • Rogue One - great film, still made going to lightspeed trivial. Escaping Jedha that way should have shredded their ship.

  • TLJ - I loved the sequence, don’t get me wrong. And actually, the concept of a large cruiser performing a kamikaze run on another worked for me (you wouldn’t waste a ship like that unless you were desparate). It did bother me that a single cruiser going to lightspeed managed to destroy half the fleet? Instead of just punching a massive hole in the command ship?

Porgs and Chewie, whilst they were a little entertaining, were outdone by the caretaker-nuns!

Fight scenes were generally excellent, space and ground.

Poe’s character is developing nicely under Leia’s mentorship. He was a typical flyboy in TFA and I didn’t like him much, but now he’s growing on me.

Didn’t feel like Finn had much to do. He was mostly an accessory, which was a shame because I like him and the way he affects other characters.

The sense of sacrifice for Good in this was tremendous, and definitely Star Wars-y. And now the Resistance seems to be reduced to a few folk on the Falcon, and the New Republic is gone, it certainly makes you wonder how they can possibly come back to defeat the First Order. Although, it’s unstable leadership may help with that!

Most of all, it didn’t leave me unsatisfied, it left me thrilled. The story was tied up, while still being open-ended. That’s how you end a middle, JJ!


Magical kids with brooms of course.


I was able to disconnect myself from any expectations early on in the film. That first sequence with Poe Dameron in his “X-Wing…” prank calling the first order… I literally spoke up in the theater… “Just shoot him… they aren’t there for a chat…”

The whole following sequence with the bombers… and then I decided to enjoy the visuals and imagine the VFX breakdowns that will come out of it all :slight_smile:


I enjoyed this. It was perhaps one of the more important tropes of the original trilogy that this film set out to subvert.

Agreed, Snoke’s character has been wasted, and although apparently he gets fleshed out in the supplementary books to go with the new films, that shouldn’t be necessary. Also, that he was so easily tricked despite being so obviously overpowered is… a little ridiculous.

But I think that’s kind of the point. Luke didn’t want to be the hero that the Resistance expected any more. I still think it could have been done better (and no doubt at one point Mark Hamill did too).

I don’t think it’s as bad as people keep saying. The weaponisde lightspeed thing worked because the Raddus is pretty heavy, and the Star Destroyer probably had its shields down to redirect energy to engines and weapons, and the Raddus relied on not making the complete jump before colliding with the Star Destroyer. Hyperspace jumps require charted courses, and the Resistance had an old Rebel star chart with Crait’s position, that the First Order may not have had. Highly precise jumps are difficult and the only vessel we’ve seen capable of doing it is the Millenium Falcon, which has a highly modified hyperdrive and nav computer. This probably means First Order reinforcements could have only realistically joined up with the existing fleet, which would have been of little benefit to them.

Agreed that’s stretching suspension of disbelief somewhat, but it doesn’t really break the rules of the universe

Yes, but then her character was really under-used and would have been easily replacable, but obviously JJ wanted a female stormtrooper in special armour starring a GOT cast member.

Possibly because she starts off as less of a useless nobody compared to Luke and even Anakin. She grows up on a difficult planet with a difficult lifestyle that she’s already adapted to in order to survive

Force-pulling a broom isn’t exactly mastery, and whilst Rey clearly has some inherent proficiency, it would be nice if the films bothered to explain that better than “like, she’s really strong with the force”. Though, the same thing happened with Anakin really, who supposedly uses the Force to win the podrace without really realising it.

That being said, the broom thing might have been a cheeky nod to the Sorceror’s Apprentice in Fantasia

I feel like this was already a thing in the Expanded Universe, but I wasn’t expecting that to ever be brought into the canon. On the other hand, it was clearly added to represent the emotional conflict in Luke

Yeah, I’m worried what this means for Ep9, they need a serious villain for that and I’m not sure we’re going to get one out of Kylo Ren by then. Of course, Snoke’s death might have been a fake out or something ridiculous like that, who knows.

If anything, she was a poorly executed embodiement of establishment. She was pissed off at Poe’s misplaced heroics, and therefore excluded him from information he may have made use of in a reckless manner. A point that was driven home when he found a different way to act in a reckless manner that jeopardised the original plan. If Poe had taken his (temporary) demotion with grace, rather than railing against the leadership. Given they were followed through hyperspace, perhaps they had a reason not to trust him with their plan.

Yeah, but think of the reshoot fees, and the plot might have needed a rework as she’d be missing for half of it. If anything, her survival scene is so half-arsed I wish they’d done a better job of it. She should have at least had a voice from the Force inspire her to use her powers to save herself.

See, I don’t really get this. People complained TFA was too similar to ANH. TLJ borrows from both ANH and TESB, yet shakes it up. Maybe it was time for Star Wars to be a bit more different. Besides, the new trend is for killing off heroes, so I’m not surprised to see it here. At least it’s better than what happened to Chewbacca in the books. Also, aside from Carrie Fisher, the original cast didn’t seem exactly enthusiastic about continuing into the new trilogy. Harrison Ford pretty much forced his character to be killed off, and got handsomely rewarded for it. Mark Hamill probably would have wanted more creative control to stay on.

Which I think underlines why he had to betray Leia’s trust in the way he did, to learn that heroics have a time and a place, and misapplied may end up getting more people killed

He spends the entirety of this movie as a foil for Rose, whose importance isn’t exactly obvious. Didn’t do too well for his character development.

See, I’d give it a… 5-6.5 maybe. The plot was okay, but a bit ropey in places. Lightsaber battles were kinda poor really because there was too much else going on at the same time. The bombers were a departure from normal SW ship styles, and that whole intro sequence was just a bit silly. Also, I’m amazed how the First Order got so far with such absolute imbeciles in charge. Otherwise I mostly agree with @Sab1e’s closing analysis
Better than: TPM, AOTC
Worse than: TESB, ROTJ
Roughly equal to: ANH, ROTS


I can’t say I’m an absolute fan of Star Wars, but I deeply enjoy the universe nonetheless.

Having said that, I’ve watched the film with internal coherence in mind: the film’s scenario should stand on its own. Sadly, it’s on shaky grounds at best.

I’ll start with things that I’ve hated or shattered my suspension of disbelief:

  • Hux leaves Poe alone and even hears his message? After immediately bombing the base upon arrival and saying himself “we will not accept surrender or take prisonners”? Like really!?! This is past incompetence, this is stupidity at its finest.

  • Cool, bombers! Wait… they drop bombs!?! We know that the resistance always had a hard time scrapping whatever resources they had, but this goes out of credibility. The same applies for the curved trajectory of the “artillery” from Snoke’s ship: absolutely no justification in SW universe.

  • How the hell do Finn and Rose know so much about galactic tracking? This technology surprises everyone and seems pretty new to me… although the homing beacon that Leia wears could sparkle some interest. I’m astonished it hasn’t been used in the scenario (either we drop the homing beacon and break free, but Rey cannot find us, or we hope that she finds us before we get blown away…)

  • Again, coming back from Casino planet with the rogue hacker, none of the protagnists knew PinkyHead’s plan, which was sneak out with cargo transports. Neither Finn, Rose, and even less the rogue hacker. How did the rogue sold that information while not knowing it?

  • “You win by saving people, not by killing your ennemies”. This sentence carries a lot of philosophy, and contains deep roots in SW universe, at least as far as Luke choosing to spare his father rather than finishing him. But… how I’ve hated Rose’s action! Saving Finn, who willingly decides to sacrifice himself to save the base and all the other rebels. All the deaths of the accompagnying pilots were for nothing and entierly contradicts her later sentence.

Things for which I’m still mitigated about and could have been written / thought better:

  • Snoke. I mean, his death is rather ironic: a mastermind that got tricked by his apprentice… This does not bother me, quite on the contrary: we see the cogs putting themselves in place, setting his inevitable demise (humiliating Kylo, arrogance, putting up a show, …). But he was quickly put aside while the public was promised more backstory.

  • Luke. A shame that he went from an optimistic youth, full of potential, to this depressed, hunched up old man. Kowing what happened in his Jedi academy certainly puts a lot into perspective, but still… I would have better liked him as wiser old man, if not as a savior.

  • Leia’s self-rescue. Her use of the force is not as much of a problem (she’s a Skywalker, after all) than the way they’ve displayed it. Super-woman style was too much, they should have stick with “opening the airlock with telekinesy”.

  • The casino planet. Not much happens there: show the corrupt and opportunist arm dealers, poor animals and kids being mistreated, get the hacker. Finn and Rose evolve a bit in their personnality through it, but not that much. Could have been some food for thought of modern society criticism.

  • The fortress assault. I understand what they’ve wanted to to, but it went too far copying on Ep.5 (Empire Strikes Back). They even felt compelled to have one of the soldier say “This is salt”, just so it justifies its difference with Hoth…

Things that were great for me:

  • The visuals. Clearly they’re on top, if anything else.

  • Hamill’s acting, as well as Kylo and Rey to an extent.

  • Luke’s final “pacific fighting”. And God, did I love this spark of terror in Kylo’s eyes upon seeing him unscathed!

  • … probably some other things, but I’d have to watch it again :slight_smile:

So anyone trying to improve the life of others and make it more fair is “communist” to your eyes? :stuck_out_tongue:
Joke aside, I don’t remember that kind of “propaganda”. There certainly was so clumsy attempt at showing “kid work is baaaad”, but apart from that…

Since we didn’t see her corpse, and until we don’t see her in next Episode, don’t be so hasty :wink:

Ugh, I had blocked that out! It’s a stain on an otherwise likeable film! I know Star Wars doesn’t rely on anything resembling real physics, but why “turbolasers” should curve in space is beyond me!

The bombers dropping bombs I could just about stand because of the emotion with which it was done, clearly evoking WW2 which inspired Lucas. In the first place. I also assumed the artificial gravity inside the ship got the bombs falling, then once in space they just keep going!

I was quite disappointed with both Force Awakens and The last Jedi.


I didn’t like it at all. I didn’t like the hand holding, copying whole scenes (sometimes line for line) from previous movies. I didn’t like Director Commentary masquerading as dialogue. Yes, there were mysteries left unanswered in The Force Awakens. Because there were two more movies coming out. People didn’t like that, because Rian Johnson goes out of his way to push all mystery out of the trilogy. You leave the theater asking yourself nothing (well, other than what’s the point) or even really caring where they go from here.

Rian Johnson decided that everything needed subverting, that TFA didn’t matter and that a trilogy needed to end after two movies. He also decided that if you’re a Star Wars fan, that you needed to be punished for liking the Original Trilogies.

Given TFA was slated for being too similar to the original trilogy, I have to wonder what people expected. You weren’t going to get another trilogy in the same franchise with the same characters exploring an entirely different plot arc, you were going to get a trilogy that was broadly similar to the original trilogy, and the differentiator was the subversion of previous themes.

Thematically, I think the film was very good. There’s just a lot of problems with some of the execution, and some of the content (or lack thereof)

I loved it. Sure there were some problems scenes but over all it was a great movie and a great star wars movie.

Its funny to hear the complains of some people because they same complaints can be made about the original trilogy. The difference is we have 40 additional years of material, EU and discussions to draw upon. I think since Disney removed a lot of that from cannon, that is what people are really upset about. Go back and read reviews from the original Empire Strikes back…people complained about a lot and the general consensus is Star Wars was a much better film. Now…in hindsight people view ESB as a superior film. Funny how opinions change over time. And I think once the trilogy is complete or as people rewatch TLJ people will probably change their minds. Not everyone of course…there are those who don’t like any of the new movies…or only 1 of them like Rogue One.

For example. The whole #notmyluke thing is kinda silly.
Luke was, whiny, arrogant and under trained in the original trilogy. He struck at both his father (Vader) and the Emperor in anger, didn’t train for more than a few weeks total with jedi masters and was using jedi powers e.g. Hoth Cave with wampa, that he was never really trained in. I beg anyone to prove me other wise only using cannon material (specifically the films) I haven’t read every cannon book or comic, but from the movie stand point, what happened in episode VIII was not surprising nor a stretch at all for me. I think people have this unrealistic version of Luke in there head but not the material to back it up.
So an instable Luke, who questions his leadership ability that was “momentarily” willing to lash out at/strike down Ben Solo because he “feared” he was going darkside and was too powerful already…totally makes sense. Then he loses his jedi temple, students and fails training his sisters son in the ways of the jedi, not only that but Ben goes full Darkside. Oh yeah…he is going to have some emotional problems.

And the funny thing is, people expect him to be this perfect symbol of a jedi but complain about Rey when Rey shows the traits they want to see in Luke.

With that said, I loved the story, the plot needed some work yes, but the over all story in my opinion was great and different enough from other Star Wars to make the series fresh again. I think my mindset going into this film, and all future films is such that: Star Wars has a rich history, a lot of lore but the story is still being told. We still have a lot more to learn about the universe, like new force powers and technology. So if things change or people change I welcome it rather than resist against it.

1 Like

I agree, Rey is a much better Luke than Luke was, but still flawed. The Mary Sue accusations (about Rey) are a bit weak though, given that the only force power she seems to have reflexively mastered was resisting mind domination, which for someone supposedly stronger in the Force than Ben would seem like it’s within her abilities, and the movie also plays along with this assumption, leading viewers to believe the telepathic link between Rey and Ben is her willing.
In theory, Rey could be a far stronger Jedi than Luke is/was by the end of the trilogy, and if another trilogy follows could even end up as a Yoda-like mentor.

Or… she could end up following a path similar to Luke, which would also be interesting

I don’t see which one, though. Holdo is shown as a brilliant strategist, and most probably a veteran Republican Navy officer. However, she is a rather poor leader, particularly in the not-quite-as-regimented Resistance. Sure, Poe going rogue was what nearly destroyed the Resistance, sure, but if she hadn’t browbeaten him and instead, you know, actually communicated with her subordinates instead of expecting blind obedience, Poe wouldn’t have gone rogue in the first place. The thing was also her screw-up in a big way.
I mean, in this precise context, obedience is necessary - that’s the point Poes’ actions prove - but poor leaders will make poor subordinates. If she is making a political point, it’s that while the chain of command is necessary, it is also not a due.

In fact, more or less everyone is flawed in non-trivial ways here.
Poe and Holdo are very good at their job, but bad at being officers. Finn is out of his depth. Hux is a believable WWI general. Snoke is too self-confident. Kylo Ren has too many issues to list here…

Phasma, alas, was already a joke character after Ep VII. I mean, come on, would you take seriously a character that will give the codes for deactivating the shields of the superweapon you’re in charge of defending at the first hint of menace?
She was the Stormtrooper version of the Pointy Hair Boss at this point.
(To be frank, I would have gone the opposite way - make her Finn’s mother or something, and explaining from there how she drove him to defect, why she gave so easily the code… But hey, pointy hair boss it is.)

In fact, that’s a recurring problem. Ep VII was such a trash fire of half-baked plot threads, they did their best with a poor starting point. The map, for example? Good thing they just dropped it.

Snoke was little more than an Emperor bis, bringing nothing new to the table. What potential did this character even have? It would have been more of the same generic Big Bad Evil Guy we’ve seen countless times. With bad CGI. By killing him off like that, they set the stage for more interesting character and plot evolutions.
Don’t get me wrong, he is great as a BBEG (except for the CGI) this time around, but he would have wore thin if he hadn’t ended like this.

Rey being a natural super-Jedi? Ok, the explanation that it’s to balance natural (if still immature) super-Sith Kylo Ren is cliché, but at least they tried.
Also, people forget that Luke is also a natural super-Jedi. With about no training and the slightest idea of what the Force is, he has telekinesis, danger sense, better target precision than a flight computer against a still invisible target, and superhuman aiming skills.
By the way, you know that running joke about Stromtroopers sharpshooting skills? Well, Stormtroopers are actually pretty decent shots for well-trained human soldiers armed with glorified pistols. They only look bad because Luke & cie are just that good.

Also about Luke, I’m always surprised people see him as a whiny brat in the original films. He is a teenager with (modest) dreams stuck in the far end of nowhere, and suddenly his adoptive parents get napalmed and he is thrown unprepared in the war. Well of course he will need some time (about 3 films) to adjust.

The f*** the past is clearly shown as a costly fallacy, though.

Oh f*** those marketing dildos.

To be fair, Star Wars has always been about Communist propaganda, and could have been more subtle about it.
The original trilogy was about Vietnam: scrappy rebellion against super-technological, brutal Empire, burning innocent villagers alive because they were in contact with the wrong person, strategic bombing against civilian populations, high-tech but ill-prepared soldiers destroyed in a jungle by low-tech local forces…
The prelogy was about Irak: creating a war, in collusion with evil weapon-manufacturing megacorps, in order to seize full powers in a slowly failing Republic
TLJ is about, again, evil weapon-manufacturing megacorps making so much money by selling weapons left and right.
TFA was about the folly of financing insurgent groups in the rival’s territory in peace time, leading their regime to change to a worse, much more aggressive one that will end the peace at the first occasion, and also the necessity of military intelligence when your opponent is known for developing massive strategic superweapons that are ideal for a decapitating strike, as well as the necessity of dispersing your forces instead of putting them all, with all your civilian command, in a single, easy-to-decapitate place. And about how expensive do-it-all multi-role fighters won’t replace dedicated light bombers when you really need to blow up something, though at least they didn’t talk about the trillions of credits dumped into the project before the first barely-functional prototype was declared combat-capable after proving it was able to take off half the time without immediately taking fire.

Still, they should have done it a bit less in-your-face. And more importantly, shorter. The camera spends much too long on that casino planet.

(All the trilogies are also about teenagers from sandy nowhere dealing the hard way with how to adult while being dumped in the middle of galactic wars)

While TFA is unredeemable in that regard, I suspect this could be made to work.
First, this won’t work against planetary targets, due to the gravity well dropping you off hyperspace before impact.
Second, this probably requires a quite precise distance - too close and you don’t accelerate enough. Too far and you’re already in hyperspace.
Third, there are probably rather trivial ways to defeat it, once you know what to look for. But the First Order high command is incompetent (by design), unable to take initiatives (being ruled by fear), arrogant (the Resistance clearly has a file on Hux, as they knew of his weakness and exactly how to play it) and tends to underestimate opponents when in position of strength (probably born out of their supremacist ideology).
So that’s basically leaving the Ardennes forest undefended, because that’s not like something would happen there anyway. After all, the film goes out of its way to show how both sides keep screwing up.

I’m not sure about the bomber design, though. It makes sense if it is also a high-altitude ground-attack bomber, but they already have cruisers for that. Maybe for going under anti-orbital shields?
In fact, they seem poorly adapted to bombing capital ships, or any defended target. Many light bombers, while more expensive, would be much more survivable against a defended target. Which makes it believable: that’s exactly the kind of stupid design based on a stupid strategy someone in an office would come up with in order to make things cheaper.
As for the bombs falling, well, the ships do have artificial gravity. That should make the bombs fall. (I read that they are supposed to use railgun-type accelerators to drop them, but in that case why the fuck would you have a vertical artificial gravity?)

While we’re at it, the curving artillery shots may make sense.
See, both ships are accelerating, but the shots themselves probably aren’t. As acceleration is acceleration, whether from ship engines or from gravity, the shots will curve. (It also works if they reached terminal velocity, as in this case the dense, somewhat flammable ether filling space is slowing the shots down, with similar results.) Though not like in a battleship duel, but as if someone at the foot of a cliff shot at someone at the top of said cliff.
I’d have to watch it again to see if they were surprisingly clever and went with that, or were surprisingly stupid and went for the battleship duel curves.

This part looked soooo cheap…

I will be disappointed when she doesn’t just go full dark side in a self-destructive orgy of violence and brutal mind control against the First Order and anyone coming too close, finishing as a screaming kamikaze fury taking much of a First Order army, nearly a full Resistance cell and countless unfortunate civilians with her.
But I guess someone has to keep the Light side alive, so that works too.

1 Like

Ok, let’s stop the bullshit here.
Gratuitous violence, torture and coercion was (and still is) as much used in Russia as it was (is) in the USA. Some were just more skilled at being subtle and hiding the facts than others.

If anything, SW is against any form of totalitarism and control through fear, which frankly can be applied to a wide variety of countries, Europe included.


I only note that those particular points in the two previous trilogies were declared intents by Lucas. I am not sure there were declarations for this one, but it is self-evident enough.

Saying that it’s the only thing this (soon) dozen of films is saying would be, of course, very short-sighted.
And obviously, other powers did (and do) things similar and/or much worse than the US government, but the makers of Star Wars are US citizens, so we can’t really blame them to pay a special attention to the misgivings of their own government.

I think that for Ep9, they should give screenwriting back to Lucas, maybe with assistance from Timothy Zahn, so that JJ Abrams can focus on the directing.

It’s probably too late for that to happen though :expressionless:


Lucas was never bad at the general line of storytelling. He was just not world class at everything else as he was at imagining a universe. He strikes me as very high on the creativity spectrum, and as such, he’s probably best coupled with other, more concisely-minded people who can help him refine his visions.


Yeah, if he had just let someone else hone the plot and dialogue… but then maybe it would have lost something else.

As I’ve said already, I like The Last Jedi more than The Force Awakens because it was fresh and spent proper time on characters. JJ Abrams did what was needed to revive the films for new and old audiences - Rian Johnson has created something new that hints where the franchise could go.

It’s anyone’s guess what JJ will do with Ep.9 after that! But I’m glad Rian has changed things enough that Ep.9 can’t just be another RotJ.

If Vader = JJ Abrams,
Luke = Rian Johnson
… Emperor = Lucas?