the best i think transition from interceptor style is if you move your mouse faster than ship can rotate then you move your camera and ship tries to reach vector you are pointing as fast as he can. like a slow turrets in WOWships. where in case of spaceship whole ship is moving slow while camera is fast.
Oh so you have the camera fixed to the current heading?
I was thinking the mouse is controlling the camera and the future direction is in the centre.
But itâs an interesting idea. Kind of having two system combined.
This is getting quite confusing.
What your system lacks is the usability for capital ships. For capitals you donât want view locked forward and I guess an extension or another systems would be needed for those. Or capital captains have to toggle between camera control and ship control ⌠maybe thatâs not even that bad. From games having that toggle/hold, I got the experience that it was quite cumber sum.
The biggest plus for the Warthunders system is that you can, at the same time, look ahead/at, to where you are turning without using something like mouslook.
But Iâm mixing things up now. For me the camera is equally important as input is and in so many games input and camera are very much bonded together, the same, that it doesnât allow (or isnât considered rather) for a lot of options for the camera once a certain input model is chosen.
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I would use zoom levels: pixel speed is kept constant for moving the reticle, but powerful zoom levels (2 or 3 levels) allow to have a different angular speed for reticle.
Want to precisely aim at that slippery target? Zoom in. AFAICT most people zoom in during combat anyway (and it gives a better view of those lovely ship models).
Want to point the other way? Zoom out.
There could also be a mouse sensitivity high/low toggle, but with zoom levels, Iâm not convinced that would be necessary.
Btw, the zoom isnât strong enough in the prototype as of now IMHO.
Interesting idea, Iâd have to try it out to judge it, though.
Maybe acceleration could be at the edge of the screen for agile interceptors, with a large surface of precision aiming. For sluggish corvettes, there could be a smaller circle of direct aiming, with larger borders for acceleration, possibly higher at the edges of the screen than right next to the circle.
Another idea for the sluggish Corvette:
Maybe the corvette should be able to toggle between a (3rd person) Capship-mode and a (cockpit view) Fighter mode.
Here is a possible Capship control scheme:
3rd person, centred on the Capship, move the camera with the mouse. The mouse pointer also serves at pointing at things for giving orders.
Like in Kerbal Space Program, either with the same âmove camera when pressing LMBâ, âalways move cameraâ or even the inverse âcursor mode when pressing LMBâ
Like small crafts as mentioned above, it has a directional pointer, toward which it is trying to point. This reticule may include roll level, and discreet 360° compass lines, so you can always see your planned (and maybe current) direction(s) even when looking down or sideways.
When pressing a key, the mouse moves the reticule along with the camera (it doesnât automatically centre on it, if what your side or rear is facing is more important than your direction by itself). Maybe you see an angular speed and ETA (useful feedback for beginners).
Speed would be set with the WASDRF like with fighters, but they would be used as throttle: press longer to set a higher speed in this direction. Maybe the longer you press, the higher you accelerate. Maybe there would be a âcancel acceleration in(against?) this directionâ key, combined with the direction keys.
Maybe there would be a âdirect thrustâ key, when you just want to run the engines in a direction, and/or a âflight assist offâ equivalent.
This could be useful to give orders to the Corvette turret, against interceptors it has little hope to lead with its main cannons. The Fighter mode would still be useful against slower crafts like capships, maybe other corvettes or even bombers.
Maybe the speed control should be kept in Fighter mode, though, if the Corvette accelerates well enough that this capship speed control wouldnât work.
This would allow to keep the Corvette big enough, helping bridge the gap between small crafts and capships. A smoother size progression would probably help making gameplay more varied.
Yeah, being a stick user, I would rather avoid the mouse altogether. In fact, HOTAS users make gaming mechanics far easier but of course many continue to use mouse and keyboard so I leave it to those who prefer that style of gameplay.
Will the flight model of massive ships like the corvette simulate a noticeable rotational inertia (aka moment of inertia / inertia torque / Newtonian rotation) like the ships in KSP, so the corvette has to start the rotation at the begin of a turn by angular acceleration and end the turn by countersteering before reaching the new direction, as opposed to a quickly reached, slow, compensated, constant, maximal rotational velocity?
Will the corvettes default main weapons be gimballed to compensate for the lack of maneuverabillity?
If one or both of the answers are yes, then the from many persons suggested target vector pointer (witch clamps to the edge of the screen or cockpit for constant turns) seams the best control scheme, at least on paper.
Pilots would directly control the pointer with there joystick or mouse, which could double as the crosshairs of the gimballed weapons and maybe could move the camera in the cockpit. The ships computer would always try to optimal follow the pointer with the ships nose, while dealing with the rotational inertia for you (like the âSASâ in KSP), and try to align the ships movement vector with the pointer if flight assist is on.
Just wanted to chime inâŚlove the lack of maneuverability for larger ships. Play EVE and it can be really slow sometimes but it feels much more realistic. I hope the DEVs go for slow, realistic turns.
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The one they plan? Did you expect capital ships to move like the bomber does now?
How can you compare/judge the manoeuvrability of larger ships when they havenât even showed us their manoeuvrability yet?
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Iâm asking because I couldnât really understand what you were trying to say.
I couldnât relate to what you love about something that doesnât exist yet.
Maybe you meant you love the idea of making them less manoeuvrable.
Maybe that that the current problem of not being able to control them with the flight controls in the current prototype version is the indication of how unmaneuverable they are planed to be. Thatâs taking a little to many assumptions into account for my liking and probably isnât a good basis for comparison.
The second part of your post was relatable though as I played EVE and can see what you mean.
Normally I would have compared the acceleration rates and turn rates in EVE to the ones in the prototype (compared ships that are roughly the same shape/size) and could have given some more basis for the judgement and comparison of manoeuvrability between the prototype and EVE-Online.
Edit:
Also I donât know of any game where big ships are nimble. That confused me too. Do you have any examples that maybe raised your concerns?
There are 2 new big scale, space-ship, battle games that I know of.
Dreadnaught
Fractured Space
Iâve tested Fractured Space and they use mainly keyboard to move and rotate the ship, with the mouse for aiming and firing weapons. It works, but these gameâs style of play, is not something I enjoy.
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War Thunder strikes again. I think thereâs a lot to be learned from that game, as it nicely balances some realism with playability (imho).
They have just test-released some ship battles. How is that related to I:B you ask? Turning, looking and firing all combined very neatly, I answer.
Now, there is obviously a huge difference between sailing ships on an ocean and capital ships in space, but what Gaijin have done is kept mouse movement strictly for looking. When this crosses over a turretâs (cannonâs) arc of fire, the weapons aim to that point. In the meantime, the ship is moving independently but can still be steered using the keyboard. Also, zooming before firing helps a lot because it brings you down close to the deck of the ship, helping with perspective.
It actually works really well, and while I donât for a moment think we could just copy it, maybe some of the ideas might be useful, especially when it seems to have been implemented very nicely.
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Just did that event. They even implemented stuff like individual guns reloading at a different rate.
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