Patch 0.2+ - Feedback thread

Elite dangerous is so slow that aiming gimbals manually would be trivial and are mainly used in tandem with fixed weapon systems simultaniously, don’t actually track the target properly, and they can be spoofed (and operate in a large radius rather than the small radius of battlescape, cementing their purpose as “angle fighting” for the ED planes in space gameplay rather than aim assist). Gimbals in starcitizen are manual, which was one of my suggestions and frankly is so unlike the battlescape’s patches current function of last degree autoaim that it’s not even comperable, and even then their forums have spawned factions of people who think manual gimbals are cheating and break the game somehow, there’s a constant argument there.

As a mouse and keyboard FPS player, who spend many hours on his aiming skills, I dislike the sound of the word aim assist, and so understand the outcry.
As a War Thunder player, who loves there flight model of the higher realism gamemodes, but who has given up on ever hitting a pixel sized target with a joystick or gamepad, I love to be able to equip a gimballed weapon on an interceptor in I:B.

Once weapon layouts customizations are in I want to have the choice between fixed weapons and gimballed ones. The weapons should be ballanced in such a way, that good aiming with a fixed weapon is significantly more rewarding, but does not totally outclass spray and praying with a gimbal.

While there are interesting concepts for weapon mechanics, which let you deal damage with a near miss but let you deal more damage with a direct hit, aim bots in form of turrets are a necessity of the game design and already implemented, so aim assist in a narrow arch in a form of gimballed weapons for the small ships shouldn’t be a taboo.

I am fine with different weapon loadouts for players with different skill sets, skill levels and controllers, but these players shouldn’t be forced in special ship classes. The choice of ship class should be only one of preference and tactical necessity.

Furthermore I hope that dogfights are refined for a time around gimballed weapons, because I:B is a multiplayer space sim with a complex flight model and not a FPS, so good aim should be one of several and not the only possibility to out-skill your opponents. If the dogfights with gimballed weapons are boring or there outcome to random, the game design of dogfights is off.

3 Likes

There is also the fact that interceptors are the starter ship, used to earn enough credits to buy bigger more expensive ships, so there should not be a skill barrier at the first step.

2 Likes

As i said on Discord, this does not have to stay true. Maybe it turns out that the Bomber for example is the best ship to learn the ropes in and the Interceptor is a specialist choice with a higher skill floor.

You guys need to keep one thing in mind: We have 4 ships that will be based on turret armament. And both the Bomber and Corvette are too slow turning to fit the FPS style twitch movement direct aim with the ship model. So only the Interceptor fills that role, as there is no budget to add the heavier fighter pre-release, as has been stated a few times.

It may be able to fill additional roles, but should not lose that one. For some people, me included, the classic formula from the ICP of a fully newtonian fighter with FPS style direct controls, manual aiming and a twitchy feel is a big part of the appeal of Battlescape as the arena fighting game it is. In the ICP, most of the ships followed that formula. Here, it is only one. Whatever is done to give it more value/options in other styles of play must not undermine that one core aspect that it brings to the ship roster and solely carries for the forseeable future.

I also think that it is not super healthy to think in terms of starter ships vs. late game ships. Yes, there will be a sort of progression, because there is an economic factor to the war we want to fight. But if we fail to keep all playstyles and ships viable throughout the progression of a match, this makes the game less attractive for players who want to play only one game style/one certain aspect of the greater war.

What does a support player do before he can afford a Carrier? What does an Interceptor pilot do if the field is full of anti fighter Corvettes and Destroyers? This will be a real challenge to get right.

Maybe we should consider all 3 small ships starter ships. Maybe a Carrier guy can fly a freighter before Carriers are available. Maybe an Interceptor can only equip certain weapons at a Carrier, not at the Stations/Bases that are available at the start. Many many ways things could work out. Imho a model where you start small and weak and always become stronger and better with the next ship falls short of what we need.

6 Likes

The Bomber is the small ship that doesn’t require as much twitching flying skill. It can have just as complex a set of controls for target identification, designation, weapon preparation and delivery as the Interceptor has for engaging small ships.

No ship should be a starter ship. Each should be able to be stepped into and operated by any player. Their aptitude for the skills required by that ship type determine how good they are at it. Like I said, each ship should be its own game experience. It has to be because somebody is going to be playing the game using that ship.

The Interceptor is not the ultimate ship in Battlescape. It’s just one more ship among several. It has a role to play. It will crush some opposition and be crushed by others.

If the game is predicated on personal progression then it’s completely and utterly broken as a multiplayer game. The question is one of how a support player gets access to the full support game - because he’s playing the support game. If you’re a great support player, then your team should be giving you a Carrier when they have the resources for it because when you have a Carrier you contribute more to your team than when you don’t.

If they bring that much anti-fighter hardware then they’ve compromised somewhere else. That leaves a hole and your team will wreck that fleet because they didn’t balance it properly. So that scenario will pop up exactly once, and then everyone involved will learn to always bring a certain number of Interceptors and Bombers. That restores balance to the game.

It’s like asking “What if a World of Warcraft group was only made of Tanks? What would the healers and DPS players do?” The game design precludes the game balancing that way.

4 Likes

This discussion is kind of sailing into the wild blue yonder of theoretical discussion, rather than feedback about the patch.

Could I suggest continuing it in this thread, where it might be better placed?

4 Likes

Count me as included in that. Without an element of real twitch shootery gameplay I’ll lose interest fast.

5 Likes

Why are you confusing a ship with a weapon type you fit to the ship?

2 Likes

When flying the Cruiser i noticed that if your health drops below the “you are about to die” - treshold but you survive and fly on, the explosion effects never stop playing.

2 Likes

Those explosions effects are not as nice placeholders as the normal ones before. I guess if they were tuned, it might look cool to have a bluey effect, but I also like the idea of a bright flash that someone mentioned. It would give the impression of some kind of reactor explosion.

And it would sure make capital ship deaths dramatic if they blind everyone momentarily!

4 Likes

The hollywood style explosions in space are silly whatever colour you go with. Still, I’m used to seeing that sort of thing, it suits the genera. The main problem they have is that they look dark. (same HDR problems on them as with the smoke?)

I want to second this bit of feedback. Especially noticeable when approaching a large battle, as I get 2 hitches - one when the station gets loaded, one when I get closer and the individual ships start loading. I really hope there’s a way to fix this and it’s not just a product of the size/scale of the models and battles!

Using a GTX 1060, ~3GHz i5 (can’t remember exactly), run from a SSD.
Extreme settings.

Rest of the performance is silly smooth at the minute! :blush:

3 Likes

IIRC the loading is unoptimized at the moment.

2 Likes

Loading freeze is gone for me, makes approaching a station and dropping out of warp to a full stop so much more satisfying :money_mouth_face:.

4 Likes

It’s so nice the Devs allow us our input here unlike so many games in development. Not sure if they really need it but it’s greatly appreciated.

3 Likes

They need us… :wink: If nothing else, for a distraction when their brains start melting from computer code!

4 Likes

They entertain us with their art work and game engine but I’m pretty sure we entertain them even more with our back and forths. :blush:

@inovaekeith I can’t update the launcher, this happens.

image

I’ve got the same here.

change the rights to administrator on the exe worked for me.

2 Likes