Last Backer week-end 30 Aug - 2 Sept: discussion, feedback, comments

#1

Hey everybody !

Our last backer week-end before our Steam Early access has started !

Patch 0.5.2.0 is up. This patch contains two major changes: the first version of the starmap and the in-game options menus ( with key rebindings ).

Starmap

The starmap is a huge work in progress. This is the first “functional” version, as in, you can select a target, move / rotate around it and navigate on the star map. It shows the orbit of stations around planets but not much more at the moment.

The reference grid allows to change the orientation of the star map relative to the orientation / location of the reference target. It’s a bit hard to explain in writing, so you’ll have to play with it, but basically it allows the camera to work around a 2D plane ( making it easy to look and move around ) while being able to reposition the grid around another target.

You can right-click a target to either set the reference grid to it, or to select it on the HUD.

Next iteration should bring long-distance ship / installation icons, names, a hierarchy in the targets, and more information in general.

Options menu

It is pretty bare bones for all tabs except the keys rebindings, which ( minor bugs ) should be fully functional. It is advised to make a backup of custom input profiles if you had set up any in the past. The design is pretty similar to the launcher dialog’s profile editor. The launcher dialog is still present, until the in-game options are more throughly tested.

Please report feedback and bugs, especially related to these two new features, thank you, and have fun !

16 Likes
#2

Small request, would you consider adding a toggle option to disable the curved effect for the UI menus?

4 Likes
#3

Nice one, Flavien!

I like the look of the map so far, and thank you for the sneaky lead in lights to the hangars. I’m able to find them for once. :joy:

3 Likes
#4

NOoo.:sob:

What we have now.
Direct Mode

Capital Ship Mode

What I Desire for both modes


Please make this change.

#5

There two sounds inhale and exhale.

Different channel volume
5 Likes
#6

Yeah, I started to make the change and realized it’s not as simple as I thought.

The main issue is in Direct Mode on smaller ships, the circular cursor ( the one you want in DM on capships ) is at the same position than the frontal crosshair; the two overlap and it looks bad. I’ll need more time to design a proper solution for all ships / combinations of controls.

1 Like
#7

Very minor thing: when typing in the chat, / key is still active (didn’t think to test any other symbol keys). So when I typed using that key, it disabled rotation assist! Presumably chat being active should disable ALL key functions.

Please make an option to turn off the warp effect. I dislike it.

Had a couple of fun sparring matches against @Lomsor. My interceptor was able to outmanoeuvre his bomber relatively easily, even when he tried to run. My missiles caught up. I also like the gimbal on the weapons, but still think they shouldn’t snap back to the centre.

Bomber is nice still.

Corvette is unpleasant to play at the minute. It struggles to kill things, doesn’t get rewarded for support play and is too slow to evade both smaller, faster ships and the auto-turrets of capital ships. Just makes you a big, slow target for everyone.

Spent a little bit of time in the destroyer, but found my turrets got destroyed very quickly, which made it hard to do anything. It felt a little unfair because I still had above 90% shields. I think turret damage should only be allowed by flying very close (“within” the shields). Everything else obeys the shield mechanics.

Speaking of which, I also spent a little time strafing Lomsor’s cruiser using an interceptor (he made me go bang). It was very tricky to know where to aim to hit the turrets and I had no idea if it was having an effect. This will need looking at, particularly when sub-system targeting becomes a thing. Perhaps turrets could be highlighted on your target ship when you get close enough to damage them?

Oh and lastly… THANK YOU FOR THE HANGAR INDICATORS!!! :grin:

4 Likes
#8

No, that’s not possible. The current UI is designed with curvature in mind and many elements would no longer be aligned correctly if it was “unflattened”. In addition, it gets projected on the helmet surface in front of the camera ( hence the curvature ) which makes it pre-compatible with VR in the future.

4 Likes
#9

Here is an alternative that I now like.


Use the upside-down Y to represent the aim point for the guns. A center circle or ellipse represents the fire arc in which all guns can fire. On the interceptor, the circle can be the 2 degree arc of the gimbal guns. On the corvette, the Y should move as the guns track. Players can use the ellipse to deliver maximum fire power to the target.

#10

Right now the game’s combat is in a pretty bad place. It’s been said this game has a high skill cap and it has in the past but it’s clear we’ve lost it almost completely for non-capitals, this is really bad timing for this with the backer weekend and EA, i thought the autoaim weapon experimental changes were being reverted for this but i guess that change didnt make it in…

solutions were in previous posts about this. the current state of the game is just autoaim and getting missile spammed for small ships, i cant really recommend it in this state. what combat focused players are going to like this, and this is a combat focused game.

5 Likes
#11

I could not disagree more, this is the first time I had a total blast playing the games combat today. The interceptor gameplay is totally addicting at the moment in my opinion. Its super fun to chase other interceptors around and the ship feels light and fast!

1 Like
#12

AA release definitely both weapon types available and balanced so that all are satisfied. Players that skillfully use fixed weapons should definitely be at an advantage and be rewarded for their skill.

3 Likes
#13

Some of these are old points, some are new.

I’m definitely more against the gimballed weapons than for, however I hope that having fixed weapons with significantly increased damage along side with gimballed would help in that regard. ATM, I think that inty vs inty fights, both against npcs and players, just takes too long. The increased maneuverability just makes the inty very tanky in a 1v1 situation. I’d rather land a few hits with a harder hitting weapon.

Corvette Stuff

Drop down because I’ve said this before, and I know the devs are aware that the corvette is in need of some TLC, but I think it’s important to keep this topic fresh for now.

The corvette… I mean, I died against a single angry npc inty. Let me preface this spiel by this: The fact of the matter is that the corvette is going to get into fights, whether it’s designed to or not. I don’t think that designing the 'vette just be a resupply ship is a good idea, because it’s overtly underwhelming in every aspect of game play other than that, and I and others are going to try to do some combat, either offensively or defensively.

The corvette has many issues, which has been stated before. The corvette needs serious improvement in offensive or defensive capabilities, because atm literally the only use for the corvette is to resupply bombers and the odd repair job/warp jam. There’s nothing the corvette can do that isn’t done much better by ships half the cost, when it comes to combat.

It’s been suggested on Discord that if it had good anti-missile/torp/mine capabilities, that it would fair better. If the vette is being targeted, the vette is going to be shot at with main guns. It’s tanky, which means that any knowledgeable inty pilot is just going to sit at about 1km out and hit it with main guns with nearly absolute impunity, and save missiles for later, as there’s no reason to waste them to save a few seconds. The only consistent way for just giving just anti-stuff and expecting it to survive longer in a fight is to have a coordinated team dedicated to escorting it.

Despite this, I like flying the corvette, it’s fun, and if I’m not being targeted, the weapons do put out enough damage to strike craft (if I’m lucky enough to land a hit) to get the occasional kill. Currently, I just have to stay away from fights, or risk losing my ship with very little gained. I think the corvette should be more exciting than this.


The Starmap is a great start :+1: . Obviously there’s a lot of work to be done, but I can see this being a frequently accessed part of the game. A great first step.

Some of the hauler behaviors are still wonky.

The warp-jam seems to be inconsistent in it’s performance. I have made multiple attempts at trying to warp jam somebody in warp that was even within 2km from me, just to drop out warp and see my target still in warp and well beyond my reach. I believe there may be some correlations with networking that causes this, as it was noticed during the in-warp formation flight that players perceived their location differently than other players. Some tweaking might be in order to make the warp-jam work if it’s intended to be used as an interception tool, and not just a preventative.

It might make torps too powerful, but I personally was having trouble landing them at close range with safety lock off. A lead ridicule, activated upon turning safety lock off, would make this a lot easier. Other people were much more consistent than I, so it’s possibly just a ‘git gud’ situation on my part, as I don’t often use bombers.

Losing turrets even when I had shields is kind of annoying. I didn’t use a destroyer this patch, but the previous I definitely was annoyed at how often I lost turrets.

I noticed some ricochet angles from capital ship fire were a little extreme.

4 Likes
#14

You’re right, it’s tricky, but I’ve spent a bit of time d practising dumb firing torpedoes and have gotten reasonably effective at timing it. It’s very satisfying when you get it right and don’t need a lock, so I’d say this doesn’t need changing!


I have also spent quite a bit of time in the interceptor this weekend (usually after dying and losing a bunch of credits)!

It does feel great at the minute (to me). As @TARS said, it definitely has an addictive quality all of a sudden that should help pull in new players.

The weapons obviously need some tweaks, and the choice of a fixed, powerful gun would be nice, but it’s in a good place otherwise (imho). The gimbal makes it better for newcomers, definitely.

There’s a lot of work to be done to get the bigger ships up to the same standard as the interceptor and bomber.

3 Likes
#15

So this is my feedback after yesterdays Event.

I will give feedback on my experience. First off. For me, it was a lot of fun.
More then half of the time I flew Bomber and the last part the Cruiser.

Took lead to command the few People on Scoria discord as well as people who listened for the ingame voice commands.
We played a bit on the reactionary side. Trying to hunt down the Havoc team. Were able to consistently turn tides once we showed up, which felt really powerful. Coordination is already quite possible. It would be good if the target you point at would also change in size if you Issue a voice command like you can see your teammates change in size when they issue one.
Also, the voice commands are not optimal for the current gameplay at the moment. There are a few that aren’t really needed much and other simple ones like “Thanks” are missing.

Anyhow. The tactic we employed pretty much a few minutes in, is to stay at the perimeter and long range torpedo attack the enemy. Torpedoes are really effective and accurate at long range against cruisers, which are the backbone and the main danger to an installation.
It didn’t feel that overpowered because a corvette was needed, giving constant supply of torpedoes. It also would have been easily shut down by a single interceptor.

Now. To interceptors. Many times I got killed by those. The Bomber and Corvette really suffered with this auto gimbal experiment because NPCs and Players alike nearly instantly kill me once they are close range. This is due to my size, the spread has nearly no effect and more then 50% of shots land. That took a lot of skill to pull off previously, even on a bomber. Now every little interceptor seems to be able to do that. I tried to evade hard and also train my shotguns on them but they are so incredible agile that it was mostly futile.

Giving interceptors mini flaks instead of gimbal weapons would solve this porblem! It would still be easy to hit but damage wouldn’t scale like stupid on bigger targets. Mattk pointed this out long ago. Please consider that instead as a starter weapon … . Blasters might stay gimballed as they aren’t really that big of a thread. Blaster flack would be even better though.

The bomber might have been a bit strong previously. Maybe it is in a good spot now. What is needed though is easier re-spawns even if no carrier is around.
I rather have the long slowboat times at the end of the match, where I need a break, not the other way around. Another way would be to have some mixed installations on moons, instead of a whole team owning a whole moon.

What felt really good is the warp spoolup time compared to missile speed. Every time I tried to run it was really close with me escaping being a thing of one or two seconds more or less. That’s great!
A barrage of missiles are also deadly. So those cruiser do have a way to dispatch me. Even if I flare the splash damage is not negligible and it keeps me from attacking.

Cruiser flying feels amazing. I still love these high speed guns.

Currently I see the strengths with the Bomber, Cruiser and maybe Destroyer. NPC battles are good too. Tactics give a big advantage. Positioning is really important. Only having to worry about one direction gives an attacking force such an advantage.
The Meta of Maximum range has to be looked at closely. It will kick in as soon as we have these player numbers constantly.


It’s nice to have the map in finally. I was a bit confused on the usage though.
Obbviously there’s a “3D cursor with a plane attached to it” displayed. I was able to move it arround with my analog translation controls.
What confused me is the zoom. Quite often I was able to zoom in such a way that the cursor would disapear. I was not able to understand if it did that because my 2D cursor was pointed somewhere else or because I zoomed while I was translating.
Is “zoom to cursor” a thing? If not it sounds like a bug to me.
Also. The zoom factor is smoothed too much. It takes several seconds to settle. Much after the zoom has settled down itself. Also. What is it representing? Zoomed out compared to yoru normal view. Like the scale difference similar to a zoomout in a VR game?

I will comment on the other stuff later, like ingame options and such.

2 Likes
#16

I would like to experiment with this idea as well. One benefit I see is to allow for some bonus damage on direct hits, which could act as a balancing factor against more powerful weapons.


The throttle seems to be non-functioning in Captial Ship Mode on the inty. I haven’t tried it on the bomber or corvette. I don’t know why you would use CSM on i/bs, but if you wanted to it doesn’t seem to work.

#17

I have no idea how you could think this.

I found Interceptor vs Interceptor combat basically unplayable. Aggravating, pointlessly time consuming and insanely fiddly.

There’s no real risk of death in an interceptor fight because of how easy the current flight makes it to get out the way of enemy fire; and on the other side of things it takes forever to nail down a target because they duck and jive all over the place.

By the end of the event I’d gotten so bored with interceptor fights I intentionally ignored interceptors to cut back on time-wasting, going after bombers and turrets only. If anyone attacked me with an interceptor, player or NPC, I’d just fly away with zero risk.

I didn’t die to an interceptor’s guns in a good couple hours of playing as an interceptor.

Yes the current flight makes the very ‘nippy’ now, and allows you to close range with an enemy interceptor more easily, but the combat is just awful when you get there.

1 Like
#18

But is that the fault of the gimballs? I would argue that with fixed weapons you would have a much harder time shooting interceptors now, because they are so fast.
Removing the gimballs would then make it even worse.

The solution should be having the choice between fixed weapons with less spread, faster projectile speed and on the other hand the gimballed gun we have now.
That way you could either focus on precise aiming with a larger combat range or your tactics would be fast maneuvering and out positioning with you gimballed setup.

1 Like
#19

Hm, I had a different experience. But I agree that the interceptors are a bit too tanky for a run-and-gun vehicle. At the moment they are very effective for defendig stations against other interceptors and bombers and corvettes.
Corvettes are especially easy to kill with an interceptor right now as other have noted. But I don’t neccessarily think thats a problem by itself, its more of a role balancing thing and it fits with the originally outlined role:

Interceptor
Your standard fast, sleek, highly maneuverable killing machine. They are primarily designed for destroying enemy light spacecraft.

This.
Going back to a sluggish feeling interceptor would also ruin it, because whats the point of it then…

#20

Some points from yesterday:

  • Bombers are a real threat to Cruisers. Good!
  • I feel it is too easy for Cruisers + Carriers to warp out under fire - damage treshold seems too high
  • Cruiser blobbing is by far the dominant gameplay, in terms of effectiveness and in terms of how long you do it in a match
  • Small ships countering cruiser fleets is only feasible with a nearby hard spawn, so in defensive missions
  • Unsurprising, it is a lot more fun to have 2 mostly even teams that coordinate both. Usually it was Hutch - commanded Cruiser Blob vs. random players trying to stop the unstopable, which is awfully unfun. Every tool that makes fleet forming, fleet cohesion and fleet coordination easier should be top priority cause it directly improves the strongpoint of the game.
  • Crusier tactics seem fairly limited though. You basically keep a tight formation and try to identify isolated targets to gang up on. Once two fleets actually collide, it is pretty much decided by numbers.
  • Taking out spawns by ramming with capships is way too effective and lame.
  • Speaking of ramming, i am not sure, but who gets how much damage seems inconsistent? In principle i like it, high risk/high reward tactic. Can help to break up formations and cause chaos.
  • More means to break up formations would be helpful. I have not yet seen mass use of destroyer mines so maybe that would work.
  • Once Destroyers can intercept torps with their countermeasures and thus shield crusiers, they will be a must have for fleets. But it will also diminish the threat of bombers to a capship blob again. Must keep an eye on that.
6 Likes