I saw that you were looking for feedback from a subforum to do with another game, and have just created an account here to do just that.
Now my opinion shouldn’t count for much as I chose not to be an early backer, although the chances are I may be one of the first to buy the game post launch.
I think the HUD is too busy. It should only contain the most useful of information, and I really would love to see, needing a reason to check your ship’s instrument panels be something implemented in the game.
Many of the HUD elements will be hidden unless necessary. For example in space we won’t display the planet altimeter, artificial horizon etc… Shields will only show up when damaged. Communications will only show up when somebody’s currently saying something. So the mockup is a “maximalist / full” representation, but your average game it should be less busy.
If you think the HUD is still too busy, please explain what you would cut and why you think it wouldn’t affect your ability to process information during combat.
I do note that people don’t seem to be a fan of the squad list, especially the names. I’m not sure if names could be cut. A generic designation would probably be confusing, especially if you play with friends you know and it’s dynamically assigned ( so when new people join / leave the squad, designations would change ). There’s the option of not displaying names / designations at all in the bottom right corner, but to keep them on top of 3D indicators in the viewport; however I’m not sure how that would work when your squad members are far away from you. The way it’s currently designed, information in the bottom right can be used at a glance to see where your teammates are located. Maybe that could be moved to another screen instead ? ( hold a key and you’ll see squad info ? ).
I know it’s all to easy to be a critic, and I apologize for that.
My first impression was that if you just removed the cockpit altogether, then the HUD seems to be so comprehensive then you could still play the game. A bit like “Freespace” for example.
I think the point I’m trying to make is I want the cockpit to be more than something I sit in. It’s how I communicate with the ship, it’s how the ship talks to me, and tells me what’s wrong with her.
and as much as I instantly feel from those screenshots that it just looks wrong, I am at a loss to say why, and what I would do to put it right.
I really agree with that. The squad menu should be tuned more towards people that don’t regulary play together rather then friends. It should support both but having a designation that is clear would really help push the adoption of more communication. Numbers alone may be a little too less. Maybe somithing like “F1” “B1” or simmilar. And “O1” etc. for objectives.
What I feel with most games is that if the comms aren’t intuitive enough I tend not to use them.
Concerning the HUD/Cockpit symbiosis, redundacy versus dependancy some brought up.
I don’t think designing the HUD towards being integrated or having some vital information only visible in the cockpit is a good idea.
The Hud, or at least the default one should have all needed information and should be the same for 1st as well as 3rd person as well as for all small crafts. Tuning the HUD to fit certain structural parts of the cockpit only creates more work while probably not working when turning the camera etc.
I need the info of the HUD when I turn the camera or go 3rd person.
The cockpit may show the same information or less important information like a snipet of a tactical map, something that can be brought up with a button in a more gamey way anyway.
If people want to rely on that alone, why not allow for some customisation, so for instance people can change what parts of the HUD always show, never show or be the default way, disapear when not changing.
The prototype currently has a HUD that went trough some iterations. Maybe by telling us how you find that one we may better understand what exactly you are suggesting.
Here’s a screenshot from the Prototype like it was during the Kickstarter, it includes a mockup of some transparent screen at the bottom as well as MFD to the bottom left:
The problem there is that the developers would need to make a completely different hud for every ship in the game.
Part of why you might feel it looks wrong could be because it’s painted directly onto a screenshot, flat, when a lot of games now bow hud images outward a little, as though they are being projected onto a lens.
(Personally I’d love to see a hud and control scheme fully integrated into each cockpit model, but I know how crazy that much work is after watching the development of a couple games that have done things that way.)
If all ships have an MFD style square screen in the cockpit then I can see how some low priority info like the Squadron list could be moved there. However, I don’t know how much extra work that would involve compared to having all info on a floating HUD.
Those MFDs do need to be functional otherwise they will appear to be pointless. A camera snap function like Elite could be used to view the MFDs for players who don’t have head tracking units.
The irony here is that the current HUD in the prototype has some remarkably good ideas (even though it doesn’t look particularly attractive). I’ll pick out things that I like about it:
It’s minimal. Quite a bit of info, but doesn’t take up much space and it’s cleverly integrated.
It’s fairly intuitive. Didn’t take me long to understand it at all. IMO, this is the biggest reason for staying simple.
Health, speed and energy are all in the form of depleting bars. Again, easy to read.
Collision marker on the speed bar
I think we need to try not and get too caught up in all the things we want the game to be able to do. The actual HUD that shows in flight and combat should not have many elements visible, because only a few are actually important.
So, the fading out may be the most important factor here - let’s prioritise HUD components and when they should appear.
E.g Even the energy bar is not important unless you’re using energy, so low priority unless firing or warping? Whereas speed is always important so should always be visible.
Just my thoughts…please do a black outline around all HUD lines. Reason being it will be REALLY hard to read the HUD when you’re facing the sun otherwise, SC is guilty of not doing this. Also Evochron has a toggle for 3 UI modes, no HUD, minimalist, and max info.
I don’t know if you’ve thought about sounds yet, but I would like to get some retro beep feedback whenever I take an action, i.e. like this:.
Well, the biggest problem to me are names on the radar designation of targets, not necessarily with the actual squadron list.
If you are playing with a group of friends, then having the names listed would be good. So in that case, I don’t think names should be cut. However, when getting into a squad where you don’t know anybody or nobody knows anybody, it’s easier learning your designation rather than everybody’s name. Not that this a huge problem, as the designations and names are both displayed. In terms of 100% efficiency, you could make an argument for removing names, but it’s not a game breaking issue. Again, a really minor possible optimization IMO.
Just my thoughts…please do a black outline around all HUD lines. Reason being it will be REALLY hard to read the HUD when you’re facing the sun otherwise or a green nebula or planet, SC is guilty of not doing this. Also Evochron has a keybind toggle for 3 UI modes, no HUD, minimalist, and max info, which I think would cover most ppl’s needs
Personallly for me, I would like to have the option to have an always on attitude/tilt indicator.
One of the few things I do like about Elite is their radar visuals (besides the orange). Near copying that honestly would work fine for me. I like having the vertical lines to indicate if ships are ‘above or below’ you.
I don’t know if you’ve thought about sounds yet, but I would like to get some retro beep feedback whenever I take an action, i.e. like this:.
Here are my thoughts on that. First off, I would really suggest having it configurable at least three modes. Always off, Always On and Default. Bonus would be if there would be a config for 1st Person and one for 3rd Person and maybe even one for 3rd Person Capital. This would allow more freedom in nailing down how the “Default” should be.
My Idea for “Default” based on the current mock up from top left:
Radar
Default On
Compass
Near World
Energy
Visible On Change and when low
Fuel
Visible On Change and when low
Weapons
Visible On Change (Switch)
Single gun visible When Low/Reloading
Target
Default On
Object Symbols
Default On
Energy Allocation
On Change
Devices
On Change (If you want to know if your jammer is on just toggle the light and it will come up … or MFD of course)
Base
Default Off (Not Important, if someone asks look in the menu or MFD)
Credits
Default Off (likewise)
Horizon / Angle
Near Planet
Reticule
Default On (Option: When in combat)
Target Info
When Target
Speed Value and Bar
On Change (certain Amount / new Setting etc.)
Autopilot Mode
When Not in Free mode
Shields
On Change and when low
Hull
On Change and when Below 90%
Chat
On Change
Objectives
On Change
Squad
On Change
Candidates for MFD or other indicators (most important highest):
Guns
Allocation
Devices
Energy (for the fighter it could be put right at the top and you would be able to see it unless zoomed in)
Fuel
Objectives
Squad
Mouse Looks should make it easy to glance at the MFD to check your next objective or open the “Map”.
I like your list, but I think we should be wary of exactly how configurable the HUD is, even with fading. It might lead to daft little issues like Player 1, who likes things clean and faded out, vs Player 2 who keeps everything on screen. Does this then give Player 2 a very slight advantage, causing Player 1 to become irritated - their only crime being a different preference?
In this case, I might prefer to enforce the same HUD rules for everyone, and most people will likely just accept it and learn to use it. If it’s intuitive, the fading shouldn’t be an issue.
Second point, I forgot to say before that I also really like the almost complete lack of HUD in 3rd person currently. I’m a cockpit mode fan though. I am happy to go 3rd person for prettiness sometimes (so perhaps only flight related info visible), but in order to be competitive I believe the full HUD should be reserved for cockpit mode - again it keeps the playing field level.
War Thunder has the option of cockpit view and 3rd person. I don’t see many choosing cockpit mode (sim battles aside) because the HUD is the same either way and 3rd person gives better situational awareness.
I don’t want to derail into a 1st vs 3rd person debate here! I just want to highlight the importance of HUD changes for each.
It would be laughable if INS spent so much time on cockpits only to have players throw them out the window because they were clearly inferior for situational awareness.
Pilots should have to fight and fly from the cockpit.
I would expect a fixed, forward-facing HUD that is available only from first person view. The targeting reticle is visible anywhere that the pilot can look while in first person. In third person, you can look around freely, but the only information that you have is the stuff you can glean from that unadulterated view.
A third person HUD says to the player “Yup, just another dumb game.”
That said, I have no problem with third person showing information about the ship to the player - by looking at the ship itself. How many missiles left on the external racks. The basic condition of the shields. The basic energy level of the power plant. That information isn’t going to be anywhere near as detailed, but it should be enough to get by.
I strongly advocate choice. A game should be fun for the most ammount of people.
We see it in this thread, some people prefer a clean view, some more info, some a certain experience.
More options in the server would also allow restricting certain choices for certain servers. There’s something for everyone when going pro choice all the way while a lot of people will dislike if certain things are not available in the game at all.
I’m open to discuss what the default should be. I support cockpit view and quite clean HUD as stated abobe.
Pro choice vs defined experience is an ideological question though and something the devs should decide.
I don’t think there can be a unifying compromise between the two. Except segregation into servers maybe or plain acceptance of different playstiles.
I just realized that the helmet HUD you pictured above doesn’t have an actual helmet outline. An outline immensely contributes to immersion but it may mean you have less space to work with. Here is an example:
