Well, I can only speak for myself: I prefer doing my “existing in this beautiful universe” in this beautiful universe - the one known as “IRL” - because lets face it, the polycounts are higher, the 3D vision is hundreds of millions of years ahead of anything on PC, and lets not even get started on the 17 senses that consumer VR completely lacks!
On the other hand, the potential for “pew” in this universe is orders of magnitude smaller than even some of the oldest computer games due to the terrible way in which permadeath has been implemented.
Besides…
All those FPS shenanigans can be implemented in a weekend, at least to rudimentary levels. Making something to shoot at, take cover behind, sprint away from, or even just look at? That’s what takes years, especially for a game this size.
For example, at Star Citizen I pushed really hard to get outside ship designers and a competition up and running on the forums. Needless to say it was a long and at times caustic debate but I won the day and a week later Star Citizen announced the Next Great Starship Competition. This turned out to be a great success and a windfall financially. Moreover, in Chris Roberts own words - and I am paraphrasing here - the Next Great Starship Competition put out such great ships that it upped CIG’s game. And there were MANY other suggestions forwarded by fans that were implemented, also with great success.
Interesting statements. While you seem here to state that you single handedly influenced CIG to run TNGS - I just don’t see that, myself. I don’t remember you in my years of promotion ( years of much time and support of my real life ) since Oct 2012 in Star Citizen. What’s your handle there? Perhaps Overlord is one you picked to post here? I’m sure you are a great supporter of Star Citizen, but there are many. There are also many who have a direct link to CR himself and Sandi ( who steers all marketing and customer service, Concierge, Promos including TNGS itself. ) Fact is even CIG admitted that TNGS, in some ways, was a fiasco. It most certainly was. TNGS should have been relegated to the strongest content and asset creators withing Modders Forum, specifically. Many superior artists, who still contribute after 2 years, should have been better supported by CIG.
I question the ’ huge financial success’ of TNGS. I think it had it’s plus side, after all said and done, but overall I believe it was in fact a mini failure.
SC began a year earlier than the kickstarter campaign it ran. That campaign itself was a small component of CIGs success. That success actually came from it’s own website and it’s own campaign. The whole idea for Star Citizen was years in the making with Chris Roberts and some friends - and his supportive wife. This I know for a fact - not conjecture.
Similarly I’d suggest there is a lot going on ‘behind the scenes’ here with i-Novae. The plans hatched and being worked on - we are not privy to, any more than you were when CR built up his vision for years before his KS and RSI launch in 2012. That included the work done by BeHaviour and Turbulent in Montreal to create a blow away visual package to make a huge splash and get pledging going in 2012. The rest has been a specific way of marketing directly to backers, growing the awareness base through the months around the world and in many languages. It bacame, over months, quarters, and now years - a self fulfilling juggernaught of a project - which has enlarged it’s original vision many times due to the added tens of millions of support ( that they never knew or suspected they’s actually get ) Planet side is one of those enlargements - and a beneficial one to anyone large enough to see beyond the limited in-ship pew pew pew genre. There is so much more that can be morphed from all of this 3D development. A universe replication ’ of everything ’ . Anyone who doesn’t see that just hasn’t ‘arrived’ at that realization, yet. They / you will, eventually ( and pretty soon too - count on it )
Great that you’re commenting / adding here ‘Overlord’ - the forums could use more colour and life ( yes that’s how colour is actually spelled beyond the USA, btw ) … but maybe you could be nudged to wait a bit longer and see what path i-Novae has chosen to take in their KS campaign. Kickstarter isn’t the be all to end all - it’s only a small tool to use in a much larger more far reaching picture. Who knows if i-Novae will do it right? Only time and public response will tell. The universe is much larger than most people can conceive of. Assuming one has the whole picture would be foolhardy, at least, and eye opening when the big picture actually unfolds.
Just a few of my thoughts - but I do have quite a lot of actual knowledge of the Star Citizen life cycles.
I appreciate being able to express my view. That’s all it is - my view - as yours is yours. Views change, however, when we remain open to changes of views. That’s a good thing.
“Well, I can only speak for myself: I prefer doing my “existing in this beautiful universe” in this beautiful universe - the one known as “IRL” - because lets face it, the polycounts are higher, the 3D vision is hundreds of millions of years ahead of anything on PC, and lets not even get started on the 17 senses that consumer VR completely lacks!”
Why do you even play videogames? These are the typical arguments from video game haters. Tell me, can you “IRL” fly anywhere in the galaxy, and explore new worlds? I mean, why are you even here? You sound like a troll. And dissing VR just because it’s in its earliest stages? Haha! You’re one of those naysayers that will quietly slink back in their holes when it gets big. And it will.
And then you claim implementing FPS stuff would be easy, funny, your fellow fanboy just claimed simply implementing first person view and leaving your ship is an “unreasonable request”, and now you want to turn it into a full-blown FPS? Haha!
It sounds a lot like you want a game where you can just shoot everything. Maybe Call of Duty is more your thing. If you don’t like exploring, maybe a game encompassing the whole galaxy isn’t your thing…
Pretty limiting in Immersion, really. If that’s all it takes to entertain you - knock yourself out - but there is so much more to 3D ‘gaming’ experiences.
[quote=“Runiat, post:41, topic:570”]Making something to shoot at, take cover behind, sprint away from, or even just look at? That’s what takes years, especially for a game this size.
[/quote]
Of course. I’m a fan of realism and freedom of choice.
Not particularly realistic and gives no choice at all, I’ll pass.
If exploring is the only thing you want: SpaceEngine. I’d like a game involved.
How about exploring within a universe where you actually interact with other real ’ entities ’ and what you do, how you act and react, the history developed by your actions, - all these things make a ‘game’ - actually that’s called RL, as well. Shooting pew pew pew if that’s your thing, exploring and logging new places, people, (Alien Human and Human from Earth) new flora and fauna, new minerals, metals, gasses and liquids, new energy types and sources, different cultures and societies, extreme advanced robotics and bio engineered specie, alternate spiritual pathways never thought of or investigated on Earth, - above all variants of Rum never before even thought of? Of course, I’m a huge fan of realism and freedom of choice, as well. Cheers.
Hey, no harm done. You definitely aren’t the only one. However, Inovae has made a decision to Kickstart and release Battlescape first, an arena type game where you shoost over objectives. If I had my way, I would have had infinity the mmo years ago, I’m sure we all would have. You can’t always get what you want unfortunately.
Hey I take offense to that! Wait, no I don’t. Since when did Fanboy become an insult? You should try and attack the argument, not myself or runiat. Call me a Fanboy all you want. I’ve been watching this idea grow for nearly 8 years now, you’d be wrong if you called me anything else.
What I did claim was this:
Now I bolded the important part, and let’s look at runiats response:
I bolded the important part again. Let me begin with this, I’m not a programmer. My degree will be in Mathematics and Physics, not Computer Science. I only mention what I study because of how it forces me to look at systems in world. I don’t know how easy or difficult it is to code models and movement. What I do know is how difficult it can be to create great gameplay. I’ve played many fantastic games and just as many terrible ones. For example, lets say you get your walking around in battlescape. Then some unfriendly fanboy who only cares about space(sounds like me) comes and blows off you the rock you were walking around. Then you come to the forums claiming that walking around is unbalanced and you should have automagic lock on rockets that should dominate all air. Then air gets beefed, then you need an armoured tank to fight against air, then etc etc. Then the balance wars begin. Then this balance takes away from the main premise of the game, the sweet as well spase battles that we were intended for battlescape. It’s easier to take this one step at a time. I’d rather have a simple yet fantastically well developed, mechanics wise, game.
As Runiat said, apparently someone might have been working on avatar like designs for walking around. The difficult part of that is not implementing the code, but making smart gameplay. If the gameplay is crap, why bother getting out of your ship? Sounds a lot like WiS to me. This is what will take extra time and resources to design. This is resources and time the devs need to spend on making the primary focus of the game actually work. This is why I said it’s an unreasonable request for the kickstarter. At this time, there is no guarantee of even having a delicious ice cream yet you’re already asking for the cherries on top. It’s not in the scope of what is intended for battlescape.
I’m not trying to be unfriendly, hostile, or whatever you want to call this fanboy. You can, however, call me realistic all you want. That’s all I’m trying to be. I’ve waited far too long to watch Inovae try to take on too much and fail.
I only respectfully ask that you keep the attacks on the logic of an argument, not to the person themself. That would only make us seem hostile when we naturally retaliate, unless that is your goal. This request is to everyone in this thread too, not just MentalParadox and myself. Let’s not let this discussion get out of hand.
So I thought I remembered reading something about WiS on its effect on Eve Online, maybe it’s been edited out, maybe I’m missing it, or maybe I dreampt about it. I just want to add that WiS did not cause the summer of rage 2 years ago. WiS was only a casualty and in some cases a scapegoat. The real issue was that CCP was transferring a lot of its resources towards WoD, a second mmo they decided to start making, WiS, and Dust 514. With their resources split so far, eve got neglected at a time where it had huge gameplay issues. Additionally, a leak about microtransactions and “golden ammo” from a ccp dev only fueled the flames like deuterium in a nuclear warhead. Many players wanted WiS, and many did not. Ultimately, its death had nothing to do with it’s implementation and its mechanics, but only with the lack of development in the actual gameplay mechanics in eve. This is neither here nor there, but I felt I needed to clarify on why WiS for eve didn’t necessarily work out…Source: I’ve played Eve since 2007 while patiently waiting for infinity.
Troll alert. Why do I even bother trying to talk to you?
So let me get this straight - when I say all I want is exploring and enjoying space, you basically say I need to get a life and do that in RL, or go “play” space engine.
But your pew-pew, oooh boy, “MUH FREEDOM OF CHOICE”!!!1!!
If freedom means you get your way and no one else does, then NO THANKS.
I am absolutely SHOCKED that you people are so barbaric, so short-sighted, that the only thing you can imagine doing in the whole fucking universe is SHOOTING THINGS.
Also; fanboy is an insult because fanboys tend to defend their precious developers to the death, regardless of what they do. Any suggestion of doing something differently is treated with hostility by the fanboys. Any mention of another game is treated as blasphemy.
Please take a deep breath and read my response, it is none of the things you just stated.
Also, no one came in here insulting you. You came here insulting us, especially with what I am replying to. I am defending nothing, but merely trying to inform you of what has been happening and what is planned.
If you react with hostility, expect some in return. It’s only natural.
You only compliment me by calling me a fanboy, as it contains a different connotation and definition to myself. You may believe what you wish.
With your dastardly quick editing skills, you slipped that last part past me. I am a fanboy yet I talk about eve, and not in a blasphemer sense. What does that make me? A Transfanboyer? Scum of the internet? lol
Edit: Time for my own: I apologize for any barbaric responses that my be found in my thought out responses in regard to gameplay and development reasoning, none of it directed towards your own character. I wish the same could be said for your own argument…
No, I say that I personally prefer exploring RL since it is objectively superior to VR in a number of ways such as (but not limited to) polycounts, texture resolution, texture, sensory feedback, background story, believable characters, character development, and realism. The disadvantages of high cost RMT and punishing permadeath is why I can’t imagine doing a significant amount of shooting in this universe.
You are of course entitled to having and stating your own opinion. You are not entitled to forcing that opinion on others.
That may be when I said that Eve’s WiS “crashed and burned” above.
I’ll add that I don’t mean they couldn’t possibly have pulled it out, or that it failed solely on its own - even though I didn’t know some the details you add there, apart from the microtransaction scandal. What I meant is that CCP, despite being veteran, well-funded and well-crewed developers, couldn’t pull it off despite considerable efforts. I would add that even without all those other problems, it was still way late compared to plan and still of severely limited scope.
So whatever ultimately forced them to pull the plug, it clearly proves that adding meaningful WiS is anything but trivial, even for the big studios.
Btw, “only fueled the flames like deuterium in a nuclear warhead” - nice expression!
I completely agree, I remember being promised WiS back in 2008, 4 years later WiS is what we got it’s laughable…considering the door is still closed. At least they are working on fixing force projection and localizing nullsec. If you still pay attention to the politics of eve, it’s about to get interesting in the next year. They just nerfed jumpdrives and their next objective is changing how sov works. One can already see the changes from the jumpdrives too, it’s exciting. I stopped playing 2 years ago mainly due to lack of time and frustration with the game mechanics. With the new changes I’ll probably resub soon, especially because I only have to deal with 5 class semesters now.
/endccprant
Having said that about eve itself, it is true that at the end of the day CCP was unable to pull off WiS. All we have the door and a gimmicky CQ that players generally have turned off(I do) because if I have CQ turned on I can’t spin my ship. My ideal type of a meaningful WiS is battlefieldesque gameplay but that requires so much more in the way of balancing and gamedev resources than what Inovae has currently. MAYBE as an afterthought for TQFE, i doubt it though. So more likely is MAYBE for a later expansion for TQFE or some other battlescape sequel. We’ll see, it would be nice to have the feature, but not for battlescape, I’ll take a game over a hollow shell of what would have been gameplay(See Eve in 2012) any day.
Now I do need to note that I know MentalParadox might attack me for some 12year old scrub who only likes to shoot things and I have to say he’s wrong. I’m a 22 year old scrub who likes to shoot things, but that doesn’t mean I would also enjoy to get out of my ship and just explore in the same way he wants to. After all the scale and exploring the inovae universe will be very exciting. There’s a reason I’m trying to work in aerospace. Again though, WiS isn’t a feasible feature for Battlescape.
Thanks! I’ve never used or seen it as an expression before but it felt appropriate, especially remembering what I felt when I read that damn blog. Greed is good my ass.