I don’t see how the company is failing to adopt things. They say they want to do new things, but they need to have money to do those things. The only way to do those things is if they get enough money, because you can’t magically wish something into existence by merely listing it as a feature. If they were well known, connected and people trusted them due to their previous products they could had gotten more money. They even had an investor but he backed out at the last second due to some unlucky financial trouble. So your logic is that “since they are unlucky, not famous and don’t have enough money, they don’t deserve my money”? Or is it “since they didn’t overpromise, they don’t deserve my money”? It is your choice, I’m not blaming you for it or asking you to change it, but I’d like to understand if there is any logic behind it or if it is mostly driven by emotion.
I also don’t know where you see the old guard mentality in trying to keep things tidy. I’ve been active in these forums for the last few months, I was mostly lurking in the past. But I still like to keep things relatively tidy because that’s just the kind of person I am. How long I was here doesn’t really have any relation to how I see the world and how I like the world to be. I think all people have their own preferences and their own way of thinking. And I respect that. I never forced anyone to accept my wishes. I merely voiced them.
I really just don’t understand why you have so much hostility towards everyone for no other reason than they/we politely asked you to keep it to a thread dedicated to a topic. I never even mentioned a company promoting itself or changing its environment. I only commented on where the hostility was.
It’s a joke. You should google for the original thread because it’s hilarious.
Turns out the original quote is “I have 17 mil can I help”. Should have done it in all caps but I wanted to be reasonable too.
There’s no need to be so defensive Zen. We’re all people who want Inovae to be successful. Let’s find a way to channel your passion into something productive instead of aiming it negatively towards the community.
[quote=“Zen, post:39, topic:1473”]But hey, if you think the present course is the right direction and that our time is better spent trying to micro-manage forums with an old guard mentality? Good luck with that.
[/quote]
You may find that people on these forums like using the same definitions as their discussion partners and sometimes discuss those terms, i don’t think it has much to do with an elitist mentality. You may disagree on the usefulness of this trait but quite frankly, its not up to other people to tiptoe around you as if you were a spoiled child. If something like that offends you I can’t imagine you often get along with others.
The engineering team is currently split between getting our post-Kickstarter funding platform running as well as getting the I:B prototype into the hands of Developer Access+ backers as soon as possible. We’ve been receiving a lot of emails from people who missed out on the Kickstarter and we’re working to get a solution up and running as soon as we can. Just a reminder that not all reward tiers will be available and those that are will be at a ~10% higher price point.
I’m looking forward to this sometime in the near future.
I did chip in a little bit on the kickstarter, but as luck would have it the kickstarter was delayed until I was unemployed for the first time in 8 years, so my funds were limited. I’m still going through ICP withdrawal, so I’m hoping to pay for early access as soon as I land a new job.
@Zen, I am sincerely sorry and saddened that I, and I suspect others, have made you feel unwelcome in this community!
I am one person in a community of hundreds. I have engaged with you in a debate about the meaning of a term because I care about the quality and viability of the healthy discussions and debates that occur in this forum. That can’t happen unless people understand what eachother mean.
However, I suspect that this trivial debate is not so much of a factor in your discontent as your perception that I:B will fail to compete with other games with features you perceive to be required, an opinion you have expressed in The Future of Battlescape topic.
If I am wrong, please correct me.
This community has always fostered healthy discussions and debates about all manner of topics and I would be dismayed if I had done anything contrary to this. If members of the community feel I have acted inappropriately, please say so and I will endeavour to not repeat my mistake!
Whatever, you just can’t please everyone. Zen only feels “unwelcome” because no one is validating his pointless and patently wrong arguments and getting personally offended that anyone disagrees with him, and he took the level headed, reasonable route of pulling his contribution and leaving the community over nothing. Kind of ironic that he is fighting "old guard"ism with being an elitist know-it-all himself.
As for “feature creep”, why don’t we worry about it when and if it starts impacting final release day. They haven’t even started building the real game yet, I don’t know why anyone is making a fuss over it right now.
I’m just happy something so cool is on the horizon, and is the only game I am excited to play right now. Its going to be a long long wait to see how this unfolds
This is getting silly: hrobertson’s response to Alkan2 was and I quote:
Any change to the scope of a project, whether it be the addition of a great gameplay suggestion or the overhauling of a ship texture, is feature creep unless it is planned for and only added if the impact to deadlines etc is considered acceptable.
That is such a huge interpretation of feature creep. So if I-Novae decided to spend another year and $50,000 to include our own personal emailing link from ships that wouldn’t be feature creep? Why wouldn’t it be? It falls under his definition if it is ‘planned’ and if I-Novae decides it is acceptable impact on the deadline. We should stop wielding the feature creep card whenever we feel something should or shouldn’t be added; and we should stop trying to push others we disagree with onto other threads, especially when the subject of feature creep does arise. It is an old trick used to undermine and diminish others point of view or at the very lease control the community meme.Especially, and I repeat, when the subject was already breached and is related to discussions on this thread.
I believe you misinterpreted what I was saying. My intent was to make known to you that I have zero interest in the topic at hand yet you still reacted hostile. I only posted when you mentioned you were refunding battlescape over a disagreement on the forums(regardless of its topic!).
I’ll be blunt and say that I don’t care about speculation of feature creep. It’s pointless to discuss whether it can or cannot exist and what form it may take. It’s worse than the mathematicians. I’m not listening to either argument because it really doesn’t matter to me.
In the future, you can quote specific blocks of text by highlighting them. A “Quote text” button should appear and will automagically quote what you have where you curser is like so
If you don’t care you sure spend an inordinate amount of time responding. What’s more, if you don’t care about feature creep or read the related threads, how are you going to make an informed comment? Sure, I could take the position of not caring, jumping on forums and trying to poke holes in peoples comments such as yourself but it wouldn’t be honest.
You’re right. I’m absolutely not going to have an informed opinion. If you’ll read my responses you’ll note that all of them have been commenting on your threat of a refund over a disagreement on an internet forum, not about the topic at hand. I don’t know how I can make myself any clearer.
It’s almost as though you’re looking to argue with anyone over any simple fact or misunderstanding. That’s an interesting personality you have.
Hey, arguing with people for the sake of arguing or trolling people can be fun. I do it sometimes. As long as people don’t do it all the time and don’t cause a major disruption or hurt other people, I don’t mind. Best case scenario, people participating in the argument end up having a laugh about the thong they were arguing about and becoming friends.
@Zen Just a heads up, this type of ‘debate’ happens quite regularly on this forum. A lot of banter over rabbit trails is a common sight. Take for instance my thread, which I started out as a joke, turned into a heated discussion over statistical analysis methodology and usage, where in both parties decided to declare the other non-existent, and walked away.
We really are a good bunch, we just tend to have pet peeves about the definition of something or other that become *quite* apparent when somebody rubs them the wrong way. My advice is to just take it all in stride, keep calm and carry on, etc, like I do.
It’s a wonder Keith et al put up with us.
Anyways… I’m really glad everything is going somewhat smoothly on the Battlescape side of things.
It’s not for the sake of argument but a disagreement on what defines ‘feature creep’, which also touched upon the direction and future of the game. Not trying to piss people off but I have seen some very controlling, dogmatic individuals that hang on every word and try to make forums their own personal fiefdom. Don’t agree with a comment or subject? tell them to redirect comments elsewhere - no matter how relevant or even if others brought up the subject. Seen it all the time. These individuals are all over Star Citizen and the last thing I want to see is this kind of behavior here. In fact, it is exactly because people don’t have a voice over there that SC has gone to potty, so excuse me if I may seem a bit miffed when I see the same thing beginning to happen here…just let people say what they want. If I talk about graphics in a ‘sound of a universe’ thread, then of course, it makes sense to keep the subject within the parameters of the post. But I’m told to go somewhere else because someone has designated new emerging game mechanics as ‘feature creep’? That makes no sense whatsoever. Not trying to piss people off but we should relax a little and let people have their say without others trying to define what is and isn’t relevant.
Anyway, if I have rubbed people the wrong way, I apologize. But I have seen forums go from open honest debate to accusations of trolling (usually brought up when people are unwilling to find middle ground or simply because they can’t stand others disagreeing with them) and outright censorship. It is the wrong direction to go and Star Citizen is proof enough of that with all their drama on and off site. I really hope I-Novae doesn’t make the same mistake here - all the best.
I am not asking a refund simply because of a disagreement but because the forum environment is already becoming too intractable and close minded. You know, the kind of close minded behavior you are demonstrating by not even caring, as you fully admit, about the subject matter, yet find the time to prolong and harp on others input, tone and personality. This does not bode well for the future development of this game - or any game for that matter. Especially when individuals care more about engaging than what the thread is actually about. Of course, I could continue and toss in a few quips about your ‘personality’ but I’m not going to stoop to your level.
Zen, unfortunately humans are hierarchical mammals, and we all defend our rank constantly, even though we’re not consciously aware of it.
That’s why argument and debate just doesn’t work in a nutshell. The only time it somewhat works is when you get respect (which is a form of hierarchical psychology) for concession. Even the concept of maturity is just a way of getting rank/respect by being “above” (key word, above, already hierarchical) petty rank battles.
That is an interesting point but to say argument and debate just doesn’t work is a bit excessive. I personally don’t hold rank with such high esteem, what’s more, I look to elevating others beyond my position. Of course I don’t plan to put myself out of a job over it but this format doesn’t require rank. In fact rank undermines open and honest debate, in my opinion.
And I should add, who do we put at the top of this hierarchical chain? The people who supported I-Novae over the last 3~5 years? The people who contributed $5 during Kickstarter? Or those who spent a whopping $5000? And what of those coming after Kick Starter? As far as I’m concerned everyone should be treated equally and fairly regardless of their contribution; all should be afforded equal respect before, during and after the Kick Starter. As for the DEVs they should be the only ones at the top, but I would hope they conduct themselves humbly and with humility despite their high standing and listen to all opinions with an open mind.
Ok guys, back on topic.
Following tracks off the main road can be all fun and good, but this one has gone too far astray and becoming toxic for everyone.
No one here is superior to anyone, @Zen, there are just discussions with people being more or less tactful and others being more or less touchy.
One thing’s for sure though: everyone here had at least once their own vision of what Battlescape should be, with ideas ranging on a wide spectrum. Let’s not forget that the Dev team already have their own ideas and, while they certainly listen to our feedback, we must keep ourselves to feedback. Something we can’t yet give much as even the dev access is not yet accessible.
So let’s sit back for a moment and get ourselves a drink or two.
Cheers!
