I believe you misinterpreted what I was saying. My intent was to make known to you that I have zero interest in the topic at hand yet you still reacted hostile. I only posted when you mentioned you were refunding battlescape over a disagreement on the forums(regardless of its topic!).
I’ll be blunt and say that I don’t care about speculation of feature creep. It’s pointless to discuss whether it can or cannot exist and what form it may take. It’s worse than the mathematicians. I’m not listening to either argument because it really doesn’t matter to me.
In the future, you can quote specific blocks of text by highlighting them. A “Quote text” button should appear and will automagically quote what you have where you curser is like so
If you don’t care you sure spend an inordinate amount of time responding. What’s more, if you don’t care about feature creep or read the related threads, how are you going to make an informed comment? Sure, I could take the position of not caring, jumping on forums and trying to poke holes in peoples comments such as yourself but it wouldn’t be honest.
You’re right. I’m absolutely not going to have an informed opinion. If you’ll read my responses you’ll note that all of them have been commenting on your threat of a refund over a disagreement on an internet forum, not about the topic at hand. I don’t know how I can make myself any clearer.
It’s almost as though you’re looking to argue with anyone over any simple fact or misunderstanding. That’s an interesting personality you have.
Hey, arguing with people for the sake of arguing or trolling people can be fun. I do it sometimes. As long as people don’t do it all the time and don’t cause a major disruption or hurt other people, I don’t mind. Best case scenario, people participating in the argument end up having a laugh about the thong they were arguing about and becoming friends.
@Zen Just a heads up, this type of ‘debate’ happens quite regularly on this forum. A lot of banter over rabbit trails is a common sight. Take for instance my thread, which I started out as a joke, turned into a heated discussion over statistical analysis methodology and usage, where in both parties decided to declare the other non-existent, and walked away.
We really are a good bunch, we just tend to have pet peeves about the definition of something or other that become *quite* apparent when somebody rubs them the wrong way. My advice is to just take it all in stride, keep calm and carry on, etc, like I do.
It’s a wonder Keith et al put up with us.
Anyways… I’m really glad everything is going somewhat smoothly on the Battlescape side of things.
It’s not for the sake of argument but a disagreement on what defines ‘feature creep’, which also touched upon the direction and future of the game. Not trying to piss people off but I have seen some very controlling, dogmatic individuals that hang on every word and try to make forums their own personal fiefdom. Don’t agree with a comment or subject? tell them to redirect comments elsewhere - no matter how relevant or even if others brought up the subject. Seen it all the time. These individuals are all over Star Citizen and the last thing I want to see is this kind of behavior here. In fact, it is exactly because people don’t have a voice over there that SC has gone to potty, so excuse me if I may seem a bit miffed when I see the same thing beginning to happen here…just let people say what they want. If I talk about graphics in a ‘sound of a universe’ thread, then of course, it makes sense to keep the subject within the parameters of the post. But I’m told to go somewhere else because someone has designated new emerging game mechanics as ‘feature creep’? That makes no sense whatsoever. Not trying to piss people off but we should relax a little and let people have their say without others trying to define what is and isn’t relevant.
Anyway, if I have rubbed people the wrong way, I apologize. But I have seen forums go from open honest debate to accusations of trolling (usually brought up when people are unwilling to find middle ground or simply because they can’t stand others disagreeing with them) and outright censorship. It is the wrong direction to go and Star Citizen is proof enough of that with all their drama on and off site. I really hope I-Novae doesn’t make the same mistake here - all the best.
I am not asking a refund simply because of a disagreement but because the forum environment is already becoming too intractable and close minded. You know, the kind of close minded behavior you are demonstrating by not even caring, as you fully admit, about the subject matter, yet find the time to prolong and harp on others input, tone and personality. This does not bode well for the future development of this game - or any game for that matter. Especially when individuals care more about engaging than what the thread is actually about. Of course, I could continue and toss in a few quips about your ‘personality’ but I’m not going to stoop to your level.
Zen, unfortunately humans are hierarchical mammals, and we all defend our rank constantly, even though we’re not consciously aware of it.
That’s why argument and debate just doesn’t work in a nutshell. The only time it somewhat works is when you get respect (which is a form of hierarchical psychology) for concession. Even the concept of maturity is just a way of getting rank/respect by being “above” (key word, above, already hierarchical) petty rank battles.
That is an interesting point but to say argument and debate just doesn’t work is a bit excessive. I personally don’t hold rank with such high esteem, what’s more, I look to elevating others beyond my position. Of course I don’t plan to put myself out of a job over it but this format doesn’t require rank. In fact rank undermines open and honest debate, in my opinion.
And I should add, who do we put at the top of this hierarchical chain? The people who supported I-Novae over the last 3~5 years? The people who contributed $5 during Kickstarter? Or those who spent a whopping $5000? And what of those coming after Kick Starter? As far as I’m concerned everyone should be treated equally and fairly regardless of their contribution; all should be afforded equal respect before, during and after the Kick Starter. As for the DEVs they should be the only ones at the top, but I would hope they conduct themselves humbly and with humility despite their high standing and listen to all opinions with an open mind.
Ok guys, back on topic.
Following tracks off the main road can be all fun and good, but this one has gone too far astray and becoming toxic for everyone.
No one here is superior to anyone, @Zen, there are just discussions with people being more or less tactful and others being more or less touchy.
One thing’s for sure though: everyone here had at least once their own vision of what Battlescape should be, with ideas ranging on a wide spectrum. Let’s not forget that the Dev team already have their own ideas and, while they certainly listen to our feedback, we must keep ourselves to feedback. Something we can’t yet give much as even the dev access is not yet accessible.
So let’s sit back for a moment and get ourselves a drink or two.
Cheers!
You can disregard the whole feature creep thing and just look at how the whole thing looks from a legal obligation perspective.
Inovae pitched a game with certain features in the KS, by doing that they outlined what they are going to be developing and now they are legally obligated to stick to what they pitched. Not only legally but also to respect their backers who pledged for the game that was being offered. You cannot just change the scope/design of a game after you get peoples money. Sure some projects do this but it’s a spit in the face of the original backers and is really shady legally.
That is why Inovae should stick to features they promised during the KS and only after those are implemented they could move onto extra stuff if they have the resources to do it.
It’s mostly true, with a few exceptions where the opposing sides have respect for each other. I read pretty much every post on the old forums as moderator and made something like 5000 posts of my own. It’s very rare for one side to change the other side’s mind in a debate. You don’t have to trust me on this, just try finding a post where somebody admits they are wrong.
They are legally obligated by Kickstarter to deliver the rewards they promised in the rewards. Nothing else.
Other than that, I agree, they pitched something and said they would use the money they get on what they pitched. Doing something different is what many would consider a scam.
Though there are examples where it worked out nevertheless, like Kentucky Route Zero.
IIRC a common resolution to debates was people realising they actually agree with eachother, they’ve just been misunderstanding what the other party was trying to say - At least when it came to gameplay mechanics.
I find not caring is usually what makes discussions calm and more likely to stop with either agreeing with the other or agreeing to disagree. When people get passionate about something and really care about it, it’s more likely for them to get carried away during a debate. It takes a lot of conscious effort to remember to respect each other, to remember that the other is arguing because he cares as much as you but has a different opinion, to keep yourself calm or persuade yourself to pretend you don’t care during these sorts of debates.
I’m not saying there’s any sort of should. I’m just saying that unconsciously we’re very rank oriented animals without even understanding that a lot of things are simply translations of the instinct of rank.
Argument isn’t effective unless a mutual respect and humility is already established.
Well, that’s what mutual respect is there for - so that you can start to understand each other. If you respect someone, you give more credence to the idea that they may know something that you do not, and if two people do that, learning between the two individuals is likely to be achieved.
Actually, I use to find a few posts where people admitted they were wrong. But then again, I could be wrong on that. Just kidding. As someone who posted nearly as many as you - possibly more, I can confidently say open, honest debate is the only way to go. Besides, it is not just about the vocal minority - it’s also about those who don’t comment and read the forums but who are essential to the future of the game.