First Post-Kickstarter Update

#37

Yeah, too much of an old guard thing going on here. Asked for refund. All the best.

#38

I have 17 mil isk can I help?

In seriousness, disagreement is pretty common on the these forums and that’s okay. Why? Because a forum is where people come together to discuss ideas. I think it’s great the both of you can discuss (somewhat) civilly the aspects of feature creep and how to prevent it so that battlescape becomes the best possible game. Is that what the first post-kickstarter update(which is actually the second “first update”! I’m watching you devs :wink: ) is about? No. So make a thread for it which isn’t even a big deal. Alternatively, post in the other thread where supposedly you were already discussing it. I haven’t read it nor do I care to.

I’m not really sorry you feel that way, but I am sad to see you go because that’s 1 less supporter for an awesome game that deserves the support of all space game fans(whether they agree or disagree on things!). Especially when it’s over as something as trivial as being asked to make a new thread or use an existing one.

I’d start the tradition of asking for your stuff but we don’t quite have a game yet.

Adios.

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#39

17 mil isk? How long have you played EVE?

I don’t think a company unable to promote itself and look at the changing environment around then nearly failing before ever starting is trivial. But hey, if you think the present course is the right direction and that our time is better spent trying to micro-manage forums with an old guard mentality? Good luck with that.

#40

As of today there is over 3,500 people on this forum. You’re throwing in the towel after the devs have put in numberous years of dedication all because you disagree with a single person over a pointless subject?!? Infinity is awesome; more than awesome! You gotta remember this is a forum to whom each have their own opinions. No need to scurry off just because you feel there’s too much “old guard”.

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#41

I don’t see how the company is failing to adopt things. They say they want to do new things, but they need to have money to do those things. The only way to do those things is if they get enough money, because you can’t magically wish something into existence by merely listing it as a feature. If they were well known, connected and people trusted them due to their previous products they could had gotten more money. They even had an investor but he backed out at the last second due to some unlucky financial trouble. So your logic is that “since they are unlucky, not famous and don’t have enough money, they don’t deserve my money”? Or is it “since they didn’t overpromise, they don’t deserve my money”? It is your choice, I’m not blaming you for it or asking you to change it, but I’d like to understand if there is any logic behind it or if it is mostly driven by emotion.

I also don’t know where you see the old guard mentality in trying to keep things tidy. I’ve been active in these forums for the last few months, I was mostly lurking in the past. But I still like to keep things relatively tidy because that’s just the kind of person I am. How long I was here doesn’t really have any relation to how I see the world and how I like the world to be. I think all people have their own preferences and their own way of thinking. And I respect that. I never forced anyone to accept my wishes. I merely voiced them.

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#42

Hi Keith,
My friend has a problem with payment during KS.
How can he contact with INovae about issue?

//eddit

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#43

I really just don’t understand why you have so much hostility towards everyone for no other reason than they/we politely asked you to keep it to a thread dedicated to a topic. I never even mentioned a company promoting itself or changing its environment. I only commented on where the hostility was.

It’s a joke. You should google for the original thread because it’s hilarious.

Turns out the original quote is “I have 17 mil can I help”. Should have done it in all caps but I wanted to be reasonable too.

There’s no need to be so defensive Zen. We’re all people who want Inovae to be successful. Let’s find a way to channel your passion into something productive instead of aiming it negatively towards the community.

#44

[quote=“Zen, post:39, topic:1473”]But hey, if you think the present course is the right direction and that our time is better spent trying to micro-manage forums with an old guard mentality? Good luck with that.
[/quote]

You may find that people on these forums like using the same definitions as their discussion partners and sometimes discuss those terms, i don’t think it has much to do with an elitist mentality. You may disagree on the usefulness of this trait but quite frankly, its not up to other people to tiptoe around you as if you were a spoiled child. If something like that offends you I can’t imagine you often get along with others.

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#45

The engineering team is currently split between getting our post-Kickstarter funding platform running as well as getting the I:B prototype into the hands of Developer Access+ backers as soon as possible. We’ve been receiving a lot of emails from people who missed out on the Kickstarter and we’re working to get a solution up and running as soon as we can. Just a reminder that not all reward tiers will be available and those that are will be at a ~10% higher price point.

I’m looking forward to this sometime in the near future.

I did chip in a little bit on the kickstarter, but as luck would have it the kickstarter was delayed until I was unemployed for the first time in 8 years, so my funds were limited. I’m still going through ICP withdrawal, so I’m hoping to pay for early access as soon as I land a new job.

#46

It’s down for the devs too atm, we are all going through withdrawals.

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#47

@Zen, I am sincerely sorry and saddened that I, and I suspect others, have made you feel unwelcome in this community!

I am one person in a community of hundreds. I have engaged with you in a debate about the meaning of a term because I care about the quality and viability of the healthy discussions and debates that occur in this forum. That can’t happen unless people understand what eachother mean.

However, I suspect that this trivial debate is not so much of a factor in your discontent as your perception that I:B will fail to compete with other games with features you perceive to be required, an opinion you have expressed in The Future of Battlescape topic.
If I am wrong, please correct me.

This community has always fostered healthy discussions and debates about all manner of topics and I would be dismayed if I had done anything contrary to this. If members of the community feel I have acted inappropriately, please say so and I will endeavour to not repeat my mistake!

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#48

Whatever, you just can’t please everyone. Zen only feels “unwelcome” because no one is validating his pointless and patently wrong arguments and getting personally offended that anyone disagrees with him, and he took the level headed, reasonable route of pulling his contribution and leaving the community over nothing. Kind of ironic that he is fighting "old guard"ism with being an elitist know-it-all himself.

As for “feature creep”, why don’t we worry about it when and if it starts impacting final release day. They haven’t even started building the real game yet, I don’t know why anyone is making a fuss over it right now.

I’m just happy something so cool is on the horizon, and is the only game I am excited to play right now. Its going to be a long long wait to see how this unfolds

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#49

This is getting silly: hrobertson’s response to Alkan2 was and I quote:

Any change to the scope of a project, whether it be the addition of a great gameplay suggestion or the overhauling of a ship texture, is feature creep unless it is planned for and only added if the impact to deadlines etc is considered acceptable.

That is such a huge interpretation of feature creep. So if I-Novae decided to spend another year and $50,000 to include our own personal emailing link from ships that wouldn’t be feature creep? Why wouldn’t it be? It falls under his definition if it is ‘planned’ and if I-Novae decides it is acceptable impact on the deadline. We should stop wielding the feature creep card whenever we feel something should or shouldn’t be added; and we should stop trying to push others we disagree with onto other threads, especially when the subject of feature creep does arise. It is an old trick used to undermine and diminish others point of view or at the very lease control the community meme.Especially, and I repeat, when the subject was already breached and is related to discussions on this thread.

#50

I believe you misinterpreted what I was saying. My intent was to make known to you that I have zero interest in the topic at hand yet you still reacted hostile. I only posted when you mentioned you were refunding battlescape over a disagreement on the forums(regardless of its topic!).

I’ll be blunt and say that I don’t care about speculation of feature creep. It’s pointless to discuss whether it can or cannot exist and what form it may take. It’s worse than the mathematicians. I’m not listening to either argument because it really doesn’t matter to me.

In the future, you can quote specific blocks of text by highlighting them. A “Quote text” button should appear and will automagically quote what you have where you curser is like so

#51

If you don’t care you sure spend an inordinate amount of time responding. What’s more, if you don’t care about feature creep or read the related threads, how are you going to make an informed comment? Sure, I could take the position of not caring, jumping on forums and trying to poke holes in peoples comments such as yourself but it wouldn’t be honest.

#52

Oh boy oh boy oh boy.

You’re getting there.

You’re right. I’m absolutely not going to have an informed opinion. If you’ll read my responses you’ll note that all of them have been commenting on your threat of a refund over a disagreement on an internet forum, not about the topic at hand. I don’t know how I can make myself any clearer.

It’s almost as though you’re looking to argue with anyone over any simple fact or misunderstanding. That’s an interesting personality you have.

1 Like
#53

Hey, arguing with people for the sake of arguing or trolling people can be fun. I do it sometimes. As long as people don’t do it all the time and don’t cause a major disruption or hurt other people, I don’t mind. Best case scenario, people participating in the argument end up having a laugh about the thong they were arguing about and becoming friends.

#54

I have never done this. All I have done is attempt to define what is meant by ‘feature creep’. That is all.

I am not going to continue to debate the term’s definition as this is going nowhere.

#55

@Zen Just a heads up, this type of ‘debate’ happens quite regularly on this forum. A lot of banter over rabbit trails is a common sight. Take for instance my thread, which I started out as a joke, turned into a heated discussion over statistical analysis methodology and usage, where in both parties decided to declare the other non-existent, and walked away. :smirk:

We really are a good bunch, we just tend to have pet peeves about the definition of something or other that become *quite* apparent when somebody rubs them the wrong way. My advice is to just take it all in stride, keep calm and carry on, etc, like I do. :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s a wonder Keith et al put up with us. :wink:


Anyways… I’m really glad everything is going somewhat smoothly on the Battlescape side of things.

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#56

It’s not for the sake of argument but a disagreement on what defines ‘feature creep’, which also touched upon the direction and future of the game. Not trying to piss people off but I have seen some very controlling, dogmatic individuals that hang on every word and try to make forums their own personal fiefdom. Don’t agree with a comment or subject? tell them to redirect comments elsewhere - no matter how relevant or even if others brought up the subject. Seen it all the time. These individuals are all over Star Citizen and the last thing I want to see is this kind of behavior here. In fact, it is exactly because people don’t have a voice over there that SC has gone to potty, so excuse me if I may seem a bit miffed when I see the same thing beginning to happen here…just let people say what they want. If I talk about graphics in a ‘sound of a universe’ thread, then of course, it makes sense to keep the subject within the parameters of the post. But I’m told to go somewhere else because someone has designated new emerging game mechanics as ‘feature creep’? That makes no sense whatsoever. Not trying to piss people off but we should relax a little and let people have their say without others trying to define what is and isn’t relevant.

Anyway, if I have rubbed people the wrong way, I apologize. But I have seen forums go from open honest debate to accusations of trolling (usually brought up when people are unwilling to find middle ground or simply because they can’t stand others disagreeing with them) and outright censorship. It is the wrong direction to go and Star Citizen is proof enough of that with all their drama on and off site. I really hope I-Novae doesn’t make the same mistake here - all the best.

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