I was the 41st backer, but I don’t know what number I was in the $500 group.
I am slightly offended to be ommitted from that list.
Although, I guess I should get my old name back…
don’t be offended. be impressed I’ve managed to update the list at least once a day 
(also, you’re on it now)
I wish I had money to back this tier, unfortunately I only could afford the $55 one. It will be hard after having playing the proto, not be able to play the following updates !
2 Likes
TLDR: Allow players to pilot resource transport ships.
So I wanted to initiate a discussion on a feature which we might be able to request from the team if folks want it bad enough: Player-Controlled space trucking.
I’ve seen tons of comments on YT and other forums asking if you could play a support / force multiplier class. The only answer confirmed by the Campaign is that you’ll be able to play as a carrier which is clearly a support / fm class.
Many folks are yearning to play non-combat, support-oriented roles, and I think a perfect outlet for that alraedy planned in the game would be space-trucker (resource transport ship).
I can easily picture corporations forming regular escort runs between three or four players - one transport, a fighter, and a couple of corvettes. But this is going to be very difficult if the transport itself is a non-responsive NPC. It would probably cost much less to build the cockpit assets for players to fly transport ships than it would cost in time to code more advanced NPC logic allowing them to follow orders etc (and even then it wouldn’t be close to perfect).
Taking that example and fleshing it out a bit more: imagine your team is fighting for its last stand. You’re well defended at one location, but the enemy has a tight blockade set up, preventing your team from any expansion. Outcome 1) your NPC haulers blindly fly up into the lower atmosphere, where they get obliterated on sight, costing you precious resources and eventually the game. Outcome 2) three of your best pilots each purchase the fastest hauler money can buy, and load just one of them up with all of your resources. Each hauler and a dedicated escort launches off in opposite directions, flying low and in canyons as long as possible in an attempt to break line of sight and achieve orbit undetected. Two of the three, including the ‘money bag’ are able to successfully evade detection, reach the opposite side of the planet (after 20 minutes of low-altitude flight), and escape to the system’s furthest-out dwarf planet, allowing your side to quietly rebuild its fleet unbeknownst to your enemies.
So whatchya think?
6 Likes
What do I think?
Plenty of things! Let me do some shameless self-highlighting:
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You have some great concepts for specialization of classes, but I think your suggestions are a little too extensive for Battlescape, mostly because your roles suggest long arcs of infrastructure development etc. I do like the notion of ship upgrades or even specific ‘specialty ships’ (though upgrades are significantly more developer cost effective) that allow you to emphasize certain aspects: Stealth, in particular. But these are still primarily combat or scouting ships. The gameplay goal is the same: identify enemy fortifications/assets and attack or defend against them.
Whereas space trucker seems like its own niche. I don’t think it should be the “starting ship” though - quite the contrary. Most of the space trucking would be conducted by NPCs, and a player-controlled cargo hauler would be fairly expensive. This discourages player grinding (the amount you have to spend on a transport more than outweighs what you’d earn from an hour’s worth of high-speed transport runs, especially w/ more players on the server), but allows for player tactics (i.e. the stealthy exfiltration of resources, or perhaps surging of resources towards a critical position to bulk out its infrastructure).
If the semi-persistence stretch goal is met, this might even become a requisite - if you want to set up a station somewhere, you may have to bring a load of manufacturing supplies / resources along with you in the first place.
How do we feel about simple modules that you can swap out with tradeoffs?
Something like thicker armor but easier to see on scanners and add more mass so you are less agile. Different missiles specialized to hitting capital ships or fighters, etc. I would really like some sort of ship customization in this form even if it’s simple! It allows one to tailor their ships around their preferred role/flying style.
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I think it’s great - nigh crucial - to allow for playstyle customization. And doing so via modules (vs totally different ships) helps keeps the asset load manageable, and the ‘learning curve’ reasonable.
That corvette might be specced out for missile defense or laden with armor like a tank - but either way, you know it’s a corvette and thus its primary function just by looking at it. Let its specialty be a surprise
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I think you are getting a little far ahead of things. We don’t know much about the different systems that are going to be in place and there are specific mechanics that need to be working in a particular way for player-piloted transports to be interesting or fun at all.
First, there needs to be an interception mechanic in place. There must be some way for an enemy to attack a player-piloted transport during transit. In the current prototype this doesn’t exist. There are lots of ways an interception mechanic could work, but without such a system the only chance of stopping a transport would be camping the start or end of the trip which would be incredibly boring. I would also like to point out that in a Newtonian environment interception is not as simple as having the faster ship and flying at the target. If the transport gets a head start it doesn’t just gain a lead in distance, but also velocity. This means its very difficult to catch up and match velocities with a ship that has a head start and is constantly accelerating. Currently when a ship drops out of warp it maintains a high velocity, meaning that just intercepting the path of the transport, without matching velocity, and knocking it out of warp would still leave both the interceptor and the transport flying away from each other at high speed.
Second, there need to be sensor systems in place capable of detecting the launch of a transport in enough time to allow for interception to occur, without requiring that the players trying to catch the transport be camping it, because again, that simply isn’t fun in a match lasting hours or days.
That isn’t to say I’m opposed to the idea of player-piloted logistical ships, but there have to be specific considerations to mechanics that will allow them to be intercepted and destroyed.
I would suggest that space mining would be significantly easier to implement in a fun way than space trucking. The gameplay would be mostly the same from the perspective of the player. Fly to a destination, hang out for a bit, and fly back, but because a miner has to stop in an unsafe place and hang out around for a little bit it gives time for enemy players to locate, intercept, and destroy the miner. A transport would spawn and immediately begin accelerating to safety. A miner spawns, accelerates away from safety, decelerates to an unsafe location, waits at that unsafe location, and then accelerates towards safety. If the enemy manages to spot the miner on its trip out or while sitting on a rock their chances of engaging it seem much higher.
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I love the idea
But it has to be supported via mechanisms.
Like Hobo said.
Sensors and their modes of operation and manipulation with em.
What i think basically :
-several modes :
-
simple automatic for anyone (call it active for instance)
basic mode detects contacts automatically and sorts them according to IFF
this mode would have medium (hmmm what is medium?) range or capabilities of detection.
You are fairly well visible in this mode. -
Stealthy (passive sensors that only receive)
this mode tries to minimise pilot’s detection. So it is stealth mode so to speak.
It has short range/small detection capabilities. -
special - probes, decoys …etc
Best range or detection capabilities but must be compensated some other way.
To balance camping in passive with probes … perhaps making it somewhat more difficult to operate the probes.
- more complicated UI for use of probes…perhaps (i really liked EVE take on this)
…so the player would have to pay attention to his scanning and not his defence ?..
decoys could be used in both active or passive just like probes…
didn’t we talked about this on old forums already for months?
It’s a planned part of gameplay that logistics ships can be intercepted. I think it’s safe to say that any ship can be intercepted, and that all the necessary game systems will be available. What ‘interception’ means is subject to debate, but it shouldn’t have an impact on the question of player-flown support ships.
I’m primarily a support player, so I’d welcome the idea of flying a hauler while the battle raged around me. Maybe I make it. Maybe I don’t. But I should be able to do better than an AI pilot.
It seems to me that some action by players will be necessary to keep the haulers moving in any case. Otherwise, each team would have piles of resources the next morning as the automated haulers keep doing their thing while no players are online.
It’s a good point, although I was under the impression that credits would be distributed to each player who was online at the time. So no ‘stockpiling’ unless you’re actively in-game. Might be wrong.
Either way, yeah, it must be supported by the mechanics but can only imagine that it already is, since as you said there are already NPC transports in the game. I’m just talking about the option to give them a better pilot.
My fighting will be abysmal. As much as I like the idea I have no expectation I:B will be able to carry it off.
I can’t wait to engage in huge battles with all of you come january. 
It will be epic.
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Challenge accepted!
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Im hoping this is the kind of thing we can explore during the prototype phase (pre-alpha). We’ll have over one hundred eligible players and may be able to organize a 30v30 match. If that happens regularly enough perhaps we can get the devs to enable the option of piloting a hauler - third person view only so no art is needed - to test its impact on gameplay. I’m really hoping the team is open to this kind of community engagement. Would be a bit surprised and disappointed if not.
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I’d love to see some support/fm roles. Typical suggestions, with the understanding that some may not be feasible with current planned mechanics and the devs are not keen on feature creep:
-Hauler (already covered extensively)
-Electronic Warfare (this isn’t just hacking, it is also detection and anti-detection, such as a ship outfitted with super-radar)
-Repair vessel (I’m not sure how fast a capital ship can fix itself, but if it’s made to be slow, then having a ship dedicated to repairs could expedite the process)
-Construction vessel (this relies on players being able to construct anything, which is already a stretch goal IIRC)
Of those, Haulers will already exist and should therefore require minimal extra implementation (just need to model a cockpit and make them manual). Electronic warfare doesn’t necessarily require its own ship, just the ability to specialize a vessel’s configuration to focus on sensors. Perhaps make such decisions pre-flight only, and you have to return to a dock or carrier to change.
Repairs and Construction will likely require new ships, and are not likely to be implemented.
2 Likes
A fun thing to do would be to specialize a ship as a tank, depending on what modules ships will end up having. Put all your credits in countermeasures, armour and shields, make sure your ship looks extra tasty and radiates enough energy to appears in sensors from miles away and you have a perfect distraction. Something that draws attention and makes the enemy easier to kill by making them follow a more predictable path. Best thing you can do to protect other ships, unless some sort of Shield Bubble Corvette or Capital Ship module is implemented to provide cover in space.
I did the dev tier thing. If modding is somehow a thing I’d prefer to try gameplay demos that way.
1 Like