The Wolf Game - Exterminatus - Day 6 - Chaos Wins!

This may be risky, but how about a game where everyone has to play via RP? That may lead to quite a bit more interesting discussion and make meta gaming a bit harder to sell. Not sure if the interest for that would be high.

Otherwise: interesting roles, even though I never got anything from them since I… fell. Accidentally. Thanks for the game, fun as always! :smiley:

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Couple of things I’d like to air as far as this game goes.

As a preface, I’m not mad about the outcome of the game, I had fun, and as always I will gladly hop into the next game with no hesitation. I hope my criticisms will be seen as constructive and not hostile.

As usual, the wolves put forward a great showing, and their victory is deserved. I wish we had seen more activity from most of the players (myself included) as I feel that would have made the game a bit closer.

On to the roles!

Some really neat new roles this time. Cosmos’ Daemon Psyker was a real standout, an excellent take on the traditional Seer. It would have made a wonderful human role I think, with his (admittedly fabricated) caveat of being unable to determine wolf/human alignment. The potential for plotting was strong with this role, trying subtly to convince people to put information into the public thread is a super cool idea I think.
…Kind of bad as a wolf role though, in my opinion. Humans rarely have a reason to lie publicly, and it’s difficult to think of a situation in which it would be useful for the wolves.

Skyentist’s role was too strong. As a Seer he was already a very powerful wolf, and I feel the extra kill was just too much.

I agree with your sentiment that Cyber’s role was semi-cruel and very useless. It was a huge distraction that totally derailed humans’ efforts. He almost would have been better off with no role, and that is not a good thing.

The Psyker role saw no use, so I can’t really comment on it. Ditto for Medic.

Psychopath was fine, but maybe give the players a hint of some sort that there’s something special about them? The role came totally out of left field, and after Arkenbrien had claimed that he had no role earlier in the game, being outed as a psychopathic murderer was a death sentence. Even something like ‘Arkenbrien, you have a mysterious psychic connection with Xamino. Things may happen if he dies,’ would have been okay.

The Voteless role genuinely confused me. Similarly to the Acolyte role, I felt that there was no way anyone claiming to have a role so useless could possibly be telling the truth. The role is random, and even worse, pointless. I think including it was a bad idea.

In summary, the wolves were very strong this game. Their two Seers were each stronger than the one we had, and every human role with the exception of the Medic and Psyker (which never got used) had crippling downsides. The efforts to buff the wolves to compensate for their lowered player count went too far in my opinion.

As for suggestions, I’ll quote myself a bit.

No more RNG please :slightly_smiling:

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I don’t see any way I could ever do it as a human role. The sensible play would be to tell everyone to publicly state I am not a wolf (via a trusted third party) and scan these messages over the next few days. Anyone who is even slightly evasive about doing this gets lynched.

There are usually some humans with something to hide, for example if Arkenbrien had known about his role from day one I suspect he’d be lying to everyone if asked if he had a role and then wolves would have known he was hiding something.

Overall I think the role probably needs some kind of rework (maybe a few more limitations bolted on to make it into a human role).

Agreed, I completely overdid the rebalancing and I think I was very lucky a wolf died day one to bring things back into balance!

This was the conscious intent of the role. I’m not sure how I feel about it now, I mean it definitely worked but I kind of feel like an asshole for it - like maybe it comes too close to lying by omission and the GM never lies.

Again, I kind of feel like omitting something like a role is running the line of lying by omission and I doubt I’ll do this again without some kind of warning as you suggest.

Do you think negative roles are, in general, a bad idea? I’m undecided as they bring a lot of opportunities to the table for me to design roles which could make the overall game more interesting but they kind of suck for the player with them. I thought voteless was probably ok since it moved around and thus didn’t make the game suck for one player the entire game!

I kept it to a minimum! I think the only RNG this game was voteless player assignment.

TL;DR Roles Suck

I think my main takeaway from this game is a reminder to myself that the subsystem way of doing things is way better - There can’t be an overpowered wolf only role because all roles are available to all alignments!

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@martindevans Great game, enjoyed it! :smiley:

Inactivity from players days one and two really didn’t help out. This equated to 4 players being knocked out of the game with zero info for humans.

Just spit-balling an idea out there, but how about incorporate inactivity somehow? It’s going to happen, as the last several games have shown, it seems pretty unavoidable.

Let’s say that for the first day of the game, no votes are allowed. Purely roleplaying day one.

Furthermore, the wolves aren’t chosen until the end of the first day.

Based on the activity of the players during the day phase, the inactive players are killed by the wolves on night one (no input from wolves).

That way, all the inactive players are weeded out day one, and the wolves don’t get basically one or two free kills, which is what happened this game.

The game then starts normally day two.

Thoughts?

EDIT:

So going along with the subsystems, ‘roles’ could be decided by the subsystems usage on day one.

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Kreydis suggested something similar to me in PMs, it seems like a very good idea. In fact it’s so good I’m gonna do (something like) that next game :slight_smile:

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Cosmos addressed this actually, and I included this in my post. He claimed that any attempt to scan a post that contained something like ‘I am/am not a wolf’ would return an ‘indeterminate’.

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Yeah I could put in a specific clause like that I suppose, just any assertion about alignment causes the entire post to be indeterminate.

Yeah, I was just super enamored by the method of scrying. If you want to learn something about somebody, you have to get them to say it out loud. By its nature it means that the Seer has to be more active and open than a traditional one, which is of course riskier. As a bonus though, it can do almost anything if you’re clever enough… except determine if someone’s a wolf with absolute certainty.

I did this with Abystander actually. Notice how he grouped together all of his info into one post? A conscious effort on my part :wink:

I just really like this role.

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Yeah, I’d love to see scrying return for the next role-based game (might be a little harder with subsystems?). I like roles that make their holder have to think outside the box to make any use of them. At the same time, this is why it doesn’t really work for wolves, because a) they’re already at an information advantage, so the roles is somewhat less helpful and b) they’re already thinking outside the box to conceal their wolfiness (if they’re doing a good job).

The one thing I keep noticing in these games, but especially the role-based ones, is that humans are incredibly reluctant to talk to each other. I think moving scrying to a human role would actually help quite a bit if they play a good detective and manipulate a wolf into revealing a lie that they can publicly disprove, whilst at the same time working out which players they can trust as humans to create a human alliance after they inevitably get lynched.

That’s the theory, anyway. Not sure how you could get that to work in practice, and it’d have to be a fairly good player to get the most out of that role.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that I enjoyed the lack of metagaming in this game. It sucked the fun out of the previous games. And keep up with the ruthless treatment of inactives, because the way we won that train game sucked for everyone.

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@noblebrutus, @martindevans, @King_Cosmos???

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@Enginish @TerranAmbass @LucasFIN @LyskTrevise

Maybe we should send @LyskTrevise to see if his luck holds and he always gets lynched on day one over there too xD

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Yo yo long time no see.
Do we nominate one person to represent us?

That’s the plan, let’s first do a head count, maybe it’s time for another game?

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I’ve been convinced to run another game by Topperfalkon and Cybercritic (unless someone else is keen to host?). Give me a few days to work out roles and settings etc.

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Enginish and I were just talking about TWG this last weekend. I’d be thrilled to get in on another game. I am so in.

Also this wolf game world championship thing seems cool. I need to read more on it though.

EDIT: also Martin, I could be convinced to host. You always have the best games, but you never get to play. However, I normally host irl so if I were to host I’d appreciate some tips and junk To get the ball rolling.

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In. :wink:

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The beacon was activated. Who is in danger?

In all seriousness, I’m always ready for a game. It has been entirely too long since the last one.

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I- idiots! Its not like i want to play with you or anything…!

Id be down for a new game as long as it starts in like a week or two from now. Super busy at the moment! Also, Engine or Mattk50 should go to the championship. Engine is too clever and Mattk50 is unreadable.

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I’m down for a game.

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